5.5E Perfect edition update (kinda + thread)

So there is an update coming in 2024... maybe 5.5 maybe 6e most likely witch ever it is (or how we refer to it) WotC will push it as "50th Anniversary D&D"

overall I can't imagine they will EVER abandon the base d20 system that 3e,3.5,4e,and 5e are built on... but as Star Wars Saga, Mutants and Masterminds, and other systems have shown us (Deadlands d20 and D20 Cthulhu also) you can make BIG changes (again like 3/4/5es) and still use that frame work. However I would bet dollars to donuts the frame work will look MORE like 5e then any of those others...

but we have threads talking about Vitality and wounds, as well as 100+ threads edition waring about fighter and caster discrepancy. But without fighting, without putting down (although still maybe working off each other) what would YOUR perfect 2024 PHB look like?

This isn't for "what's most likely" or "this is what I am thinking it will be" but if you could alter reality so the dev team saw things your way... what would the 2024 PHB look like...

I have this labeled 'kinda +' so please don't tear down others ideas... even if you are going to post the opposite of someone let your ideas stand on there own not as 'better' then others.
 

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BookTenTiger

He / Him
I'm really enjoying 5e, and I have Level Up for my crunchy needs, so I don't actually want too many changes for 5.5...

But...

If I found a D&D Genie and got to make a wish for a new edition that combined everything I liked from every edition I ever played (and magically everyone else would love it too), it would look something like this:

Basic Chassis: 5e (this system just works very well- bounded accuracy, advantage, etc)
Monsters: 4e (the coolest monsters)
Feats: 3e (more feats! But change the trap feats)
GM-less Play: Ironsworn

Oh yeah, I threw in a rogue element there. Ironsworn has a bunch of "Oracle Tables" you can use to generate enemy actions, plot twists, settlement characteristics, NPC goals, etc. I think it would be so cool if a new edition or update included a whole section on how to run D&D without a DM. And I say this as someone who loves to run games!
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Feats. Just a whole bunch of feats to build your character custom. Good feats. No chains longer than 3, but plenty of branches.

Minimal class and species chassis with minimal designer imposition of expectations.

Absolutely no bounded accuracy and actual bonuses alongside an advantage mechanic.

No monster allowed in without a cool power.

Rework multiclassing until it works or don't do it.
 

delericho

Legend
But without fighting, without putting down (although still maybe working off each other) what would YOUR perfect 2024 PHB look like?
Honestly, my 'perfect' PHB wouldn't look much different from what we have now - a significant number of small tweaks to do things like rebalance the Ranger, and (hopefully) an over-and-done-with scrub of the lore to fix the problematic areas so we can move on, but leave it mostly as-is. That said, I've been reading through Level Up recently, and the Heritage/Culture/Background/Destiny split is inspired, so...

But where I'm really hoping for changes are in the DMG and the MM.

IMO, the DMG needs a pretty significant rewrite. Some sections are mechanically okay but need a rewrite for clarity; a lot of it is just dross. So cut the dross, and replace it with a lot of more directly usable material - lots of examples of adventure design, templates for various areas, how-to guides, and so on.

And the MM suffers mostly from being done early in the design process, and monster design having moved on very significantly since. So while the content is fine, I'd quite like to see a top-to-bottom redesign of those monsters to bring them up to standard. Oh, and I'd really like to see stat blocks for 'standard' elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc in there - the omission of those is one of those "proud nails" that serves as a small but regular annoyance.
 

MIne would keep 5e frame with a few small changes:

Advantage/Disadvantage and Concentration will remain 100% the same

race...use the Monsters of the multiverse style...

the prof would be 1/3 level +1 (so 1 at 1st level 2 at 3rd 3 at 6th 4 at 9th 5 at 12th 6 at 15th and 7 at 18th) BUT non prof would go up on the 6's so every skill/save/attack you are not prof in would get +1 at 6th +2 at 12th and +3 at 18th... and this prof/non prof kind a adds to AC too. Everyone adds the non prof bonus to there AC but if you are prof in a shield and using it you can choose to use your reaction to add your full prof to your AC as a reaction (instead of +1/+2 AC

ASI/Feats the default would be feat, and 80% of feats would be what we now call half feats (+1 to 1 stat and a bonus ability) and most classes would get them at 4,8,14, and 18... and you can choose to take +2 to 1 stat or +1 to 2 stats in place of a feat... BUT there would also be a ASI at level 11 of +2 to 1 stat and +1 to the other 5. this could not be replaced with a feat.

3e Prestige class mixed with 4e paragon path and epic destines would be core... around 5th level you can take 1 of these and again around 17th you can. You have to meet the prereqs but they are more like subclasses they add to your character not replace (so a 3rd level rogue 2nd level wizard picks up a paragon class but still gets to take either 4th rogue or 3rd wizard on top)

Subclasses will be uniform... everyone gets 2 subclasses that are mix and match (based on how warlock is now) 1st and 3rd and some (but not all) subclasses are shared... so at level 3 either a fighter or a rogue can take 'swash buckler' or a bard, cleric, or wizard could all take 'lore master'

Classes... I would break fighter and wizard up... 3 fighters 4 wizards. fighter A based on champion (the simple fighter) fighter B (I would want to be a warlord but maybe a sword sage) based on mixing the 4e fighter and the battle master, and FIghter C would be the gish class mixing eldritch knight and blade singer. Wizard would be based on late term 3.5 classes, Warmage, Beguiler, Summoner, and Necromancer. Doing this will allow for more subclass and class feture options in each. (and in the gish and the broken up wizard case each has a spell list so no 1 class has most of teh spells)
Cleric I would go back to 2e for and give domains more like spheres... so yeah you get a small list of 'all clerics can cast' but each cleric would then be making there own list of spells by mixing and matching domains.
Rogue sneak attack will be more multiclass friendly (kind of) it would be 1d4 per prof (so level 1 rogue level 19 fighter has 7d4) but at levels the rouge upgrades the die code to d6, d8 and d10 (I am hesitant to give +7d12 but maybe)

Hitpoints... EVERYONE GETS LESS. 1st all HD go down 1 die code... wizard/sorcerer d4, cleric rogue monk warlock ect D6, fighter ranger paladin D8 and barbarians d10s... 2nd everyone starts with 3HD, but only gets +1 HD every odd level (so at level 19 you have 13HD) and you get a set amount of hp at even levels... and Con bonus doesn't go to HP... but when you spend HD to heal you get to add Con mod.

Healing... low level spells and some abilities (remember I want the warlord back) have you spend HD, and better/higher level magic lets you heal AS IF you spent 1 (or multi) HD.

other spells... yes we are keeping concentration, but I still want OTHER draw backs like 2e had... haste ageing you a year ect...
BUT also I want rituals to be more like 4e...I guess this is it's own one

Rituals. Any spell that take more then 1 round to cast will count as a ritual and have a costly component... (any spell that takes 1 action will not have a costly component too) This means that identify, legend lore, planar ally, demi plane ect ect and they can still be class specific, but a ritual caster feat can do that too... (BONUS not needed but would be cool if multi casters could combine ritual casting to make it better)

Monsters.... With the PC changes monster will have to both have less HP and deal less damage.
 






This. But without onerous or nonsensical requirements.

If your PrC's prerequisite list needs to go to a second line, it needs to go into revisions.
1 line for a single stat/feat/feature/mechanic and 1 line for an RP requirment should be max...

Example: Lore Master Int 13+, must have spent at least X amount of time in libraries studding manuscripts
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Yeap, I can agree with that.
Tangent: I distinctly remember a PrC that required you to solo and kill a monster of CR equal to your level or higher for no other reason other than to join the connected organization. Which meant in order to take the PRC, you needed to 1) fight an entire combat where the other players are just sitting there, watching, Fight a combat that will absolutely kill you, and 3) have a character who can sense the CRs of creatures around them.

Between that and the Assassin's 'be a moron to join our murder club' thing, I'm leery of organization PrCs to this day even for my non-stupid world orgs.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Would something like the really expansive archetypes in PF 1e fill that need?
It wouldn't fill the need, but it would also be welcome.

More customization! Subclass, PrCs, backgrounds, archetypes, feats, sweet magical frippery that does nothing mechanical like a cape that always flutters dramatically, a ring that makes your teeth do the 'ting' gleam when you smile, or an invisible shirt that makes your abs look awesome.

More I say!

~breaks mug on the floor dramatically~
 

Agametorememberbooks

Explorer
Publisher
There are a slew of great ideas in here. I love the idea of getting the rules down to 5 pages or less as per the post above. I also agree with the post about using the new Mordenkainen’s format on playable races; one-page format is precisely the type of thing I go for…which is why we created the DM supplement that we did.

I also agree that 4e monsters were super fun to run as a DM. I’ve never had as much fun using monsters. I still use the minion mechanic to this day. My heroes don’t know it, but they enjoyed the swarm of 34 mongrelfolk aboard their ship this past Saturday.

I’d also love to see the introductory fluff sentence at the start of abilities removed. Anyone can look up episodes of countless streamed games online and learn how to add the fluff to their game. Just get to the point of what an ability does and let us be the creatives.

I’d also love to be able to buy a physical book, and have it come with a digital copy that I can keep on my iPad (Not necessarily an Edition thing).
 


payn

Legend
Tangent: I distinctly remember a PrC that required you to solo and kill a monster of CR equal to your level or higher for no other reason other than to join the connected organization. Which meant in order to take the PRC, you needed to 1) fight an entire combat where the other players are just sitting there, watching, Fight a combat that will absolutely kill you, and 3) have a character who can sense the CRs of creatures around them.

Between that and the Assassin's 'be a moron to join our murder club' thing, I'm leery of organization PrCs to this day even for my non-stupid world orgs.
I like prestige classes being extra flavorful, but yes they had some cumbersome requirements both mechanical and flavorful over the years.
 

Stormonu

Legend
Basically, have them incorporate my homebrew material (though playtested, of course).

The highlights would be:

Extra feat at 1st level, possibly sourced from race. A racial ability at 5th level, and again at 10th level, maybe 15th as well.

add a 1/2 to 3/4 arcane caster/martial class (Eldritch Knight less focused on martial and more on magic, Swordmage, Bladesinger, Arcane Archer and all those designs can hang off that class instead of fighter).

Sorcerer origin decoupled from subclass, similar to Warlock Patron/Subclass. More non-combat spells added to the sorcerer list so it doesn’t have to be a blaster all the time.

Warlock’s Eldritch Blast is a class feature, not a spell. Option to make it a melee weapon instead of a ranged attack.

Monk’s spell-like abilities aren’t fixed by level, but instead chosen from a list, like invocations. Also, give the monk martial art styles (like Mantis Style or Tiger Style) to allow customization of how they fight/defend themselves.

Hit point accumulation greatly slows at 10th level, or only gained every other level.

Remove excessive Concentration requirements from many Druid spells, such as Barkskin. Drop the “no metal” speech from the class.

Add back some additional weapon qualities (crit range & multiplier) to further differentiate weapons and reduced the “best weapon all the time” state of the weapon list.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Warlock’s Eldritch Blast is a class feature, not a spell. Option to make it a melee weapon instead of a ranged attack.
My god, how have I not thought of a melee EB?

The Punch Wizzard rides again!
Remove excessive Concentration requirements from many Druid spells, such as Barkskin. Drop the “no metal” speech from the class.
Amen to both.
Add back some additional weapon qualities (crit range & multiplier) to further differentiate weapons and reduced the “best weapon all the time” state of the weapon list.
I miss crit ranges so much. I find myself rolling 19's and then getting kinda depressed.
 


Warlock’s Eldritch Blast is a class feature, not a spell. Option to make it a melee weapon instead of a ranged attack.
more things like that too would be cool... I like class features for spell casters over more spell bloat
Hit point accumulation greatly slows at 10th level, or only gained every other level.
yeah... getting the HP inflation under control is a big deal
Remove excessive Concentration requirements from many Druid spells, such as Barkskin. Drop the “no metal” speech from the class.
yeah... concentration is great but like mage armor some melee range spells should not have it
Add back some additional weapon qualities (crit range & multiplier) to further differentiate weapons and reduced the “best weapon all the time” state of the weapon list.
I forgot about that... yes brutal and increased crit range maybe more accurate... reach, I would love for weapons to have different ideas.
 

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