Perfect edition update (kinda + thread)


log in or register to remove this ad

Retreater

Legend
Get rid of bonus actions. Either make those actions that are labelled "bonus" more impressive and consider them regular actions, fold them into existing actions, or consider them free actions.

Have spell level actually line up with caster level. The tradition has always confused new players (having 2nd level spells come to a 3rd level caster, 3rd level spells at 5th level, etc.). Spread out the spells like fireball is 5th level and lightning bolt is 6th level (or whatever). [I believe 4e and a few other d20-adjacent games did it this way.]

Create a penalty for dropping to 0 hp and dying then popping up the next round. [Maybe like the PF2e Wounded condition.]

Scale back the number of classes, but increase subclasses - then allow characters who qualify to take those subclasses (similar to prestige classes in previous editions). For example - a ranger, druid, barbarian, or fighter could take "wild hunter." A warlock, wizard, sorcerer, druid, or cleric could take "elementalist."

Mystify the monsters. Give them cool special abilities and built-in unique resistances (where appropriate). Few should be stock "vanilla" creatures.

In fact, use a labeling system similar to 4e: Brute, Soldier, Artillery, etc. And give us meaningful solo monsters. And minions!

Magic item economy

Guidance for creation of Skill Challenges

A "Basic" game [granted, without a lot of these features] covering maybe levels 1-5. Character creation, iconic monsters, etc., with enough flexibility to run multiple campaigns if someone desires.
 

Have spell level actually line up with caster level. The tradition has always confused new players (having 2nd level spells come to a 3rd level caster, 3rd level spells at 5th level, etc.). Spread out the spells like fireball is 5th level and lightning bolt is 6th level (or whatever). [I believe 4e and a few other d20-adjacent games did it this way.]
oh yes this would also allow for 1st 2nd and 3rd 4th level spells to break up what is now 1st/2nd
In fact, use a labeling system similar to 4e: Brute, Soldier, Artillery, etc. And give us meaningful solo monsters. And minions!
yes spell out what each monster is meant for
A "Basic" game [granted, without a lot of these features] covering maybe levels 1-5. Character creation, iconic monsters, etc., with enough flexibility to run multiple campaigns if someone desires.
yup...
 

W'rkncacnter

Explorer
This isn't for "what's most likely" or "this is what I am thinking it will be" but if you could alter reality so the dev team saw things your way... what would the 2024 PHB look like...
so, in other words...what if i woke up one day and the whole dev team agreed with me 😉? hm. well...
  • ASIs and feats separated and connected to character level instead of class level (probably ASIs at the levels they're at now, and feats at 1st level and every level wherein your prof bonus increases) - and also no more half feats. if you design a feat such that you think you need to put in a +1 ASI in order to make it compete with other feats, you're doing it wrong and you're starting again.
    • bonus feats/ASIs can be tied to class level, though. i could see fighter having a few bonus feats and monk having a few bonus ASIs, for instance.
  • subclasses as class feats instead. i don't care for the rigidity of subclasses, honestly.
  • weapons and armor that actually at least kind of subscribe to reality. like come on, we're still on studded leather? really?
    • also just more interesting weapons. i want a finesse two-hander, dammit.
    • also, armor as die reduction instead of dodge bonus? i'd definitely look into that at least.
  • some sort of bonus to two-handed melee weapon damage that isn't just an increased die. i've personally been thinking of adding your strength again (minimum +1) to damage rolls made with a melee weapon you're two-handing to my own games (not half, because the die still exists and i think the math is just cleaner then adding half your strength or multiplying the total weapon damage result by 1.5).
  • some sort of wounds/vitality system, even as just an optional rule
  • a finished crafting and travel system. level up does these well enough, even if i don't really like the idea of gathering incredibly specific components you can only get by specifically going adventuring for them to make magic items when at that point i really think the reward for the quest should just be that magic item, but it's better then the basically nothing normal 5e has.
  • artificer as a base class, readjusted to take into account the fact that there's an actually proper crafting system now. probably also a support martial instead of a support caster. i feel like a crafting class should be centered around making you good at crafting and at using the things you craft, not at simulating crafting and casting, and i like the idea of a support martial that isn't just bossing people around (though bossing people around is still fun).
  • 10 minute short rests so that they actually have a purpose
  • better critfishing support, because haha natural 17 crit go brrrr
  • more interesting things for martials to do. level up as an example again, maneuvers are cool.
  • here's where things get real spicy - spellcasting like WOIN or similar systems where you essentially build and buy spells. maybe go a step further and have each caster interact with them differently - for example, cleric/druid/paladin/ranger get a list of pre-built spells they can prepare each day, sorcerers/warlocks can put together spells on the fly, (artificers, if they stay casters/)bards/wizards build their daily spells as part of their daily preparations. don't need that second part (honestly my example probably wasn't great since half the casters just don't build spells at all with it), but i just really like the idea of putting together spells i'm almost certain nobody else has (and then finding out a month later that, like, half the planet already knows). also, this would essentially replace metamagic.
  • classes that get a third extra attack, and fighters getting their last extra attack at level 17 instead of 20. it just annoys me that the former doesn't exist and the latter is how it is atm
  • up to 30th level. this has a big asterisk on it in that i'd be 100% ok with it being in a supplement instead of the core book, and actually think it might be more appropriate to do so. i just wanna throw a +19 attack modifier before magic items and buffs around at an overgod, ok?
  • half proficiency to nonproficient saves to help avoid late game scenarios where you just straight up can't save against something. converting saves to defenses ala 4e could be cool but isn't necessary.
  • probably the biggest one: BALANCE THE SAVES. INTELLIGENCE SAVES AGAINST 4 SPELLS IN THE PHB. FOUR. WHY DOES IT WORK LIKE THIS.
so yeah basically my perfect 5e will never happen. but seriously, they really should balance the saves, i wasn't kidding about that intelligence thing, look it up.
edit: also, tags to denote what are mundane, magical, supernatural, and spell(-like) abilities to help with traits like magical resistance.
 
Last edited:

Grantypants

Explorer
In short, I want to see the things in 5e that rarely come up and mostly don't matter be made either much more mechanically important or reduced entirely to fluff. Honestly, I'm not too bothered about which way those things go, whether they're beefed up or thrown out.

For example: Alignment. You could cut what's left of it from the game entirely without missing much. OR. You could beef it up. Instead of being aligned with "Good" or "Chaos", characters are aligned with various factions in the world, a lot like 13th Age's icons. DMs can

Or Spell Components. Irrelevant unless the PCs have their hands bound or are in a zone of Silence, etc. The PHB even says to handwave buying material components when shopping. Either take the limitation out or expand it. I like the Pathfinder route of making spells more effective if you can use more effort/actions/types of components. You might also add a lot more game rules that interact differently with spells depending on what components were used to cast them.

Same goes for weapon types, damage types, ability scores (as opposed to ability score bonuses), hit dice.

Plus bring back healing surges, the bloodied condition (and everything that responded to that), and minions/mooks.
 

Tiny balancing/rewording for multiclasses. (Absolutely don't do away with it, it is what makes character building really fun for me!)

Keep the feats/ASI balance, but maybe balance a little here and there.

Keep bounded accuracy but improve the range to +3 to +9. Basically times 1.5.
I am not sure how to implement expertise and half proficiency yet.

Balance some spells and incorporate tasha's guide options for classes.

Include artificer and update races.

Reorganize the DMG

Rebalance short and long rests by aiming for a much more realistic standard adventuring day and present other healing options right in the PHB.
 

Micah Sweet

Legend
My perfect (more or less) update to 5e came out last year. It's called Level Up. I've spent most of my game time since then converting material.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Okay, my truly perfect "50th Anniversary PHB" would be one that's just Tasha's style fixes rolled in with nothing removed so it's 100% fully compatible with everything I already bought. But putting that aside...

Okay, this is one description of a 50th Aniversary D&D I would enjoy. It's not the only one. And I'm specifically try to keep it feeling like D&D. If I don't describe something, default to a 5e-like position. E.g. if I don't mention bounded accuracy, then it's still the same.

1. Different multiclassing. I quite like the 3.0 style multiclassing we have now, but it's a bit of a trap for new players where you can shoot yourself in the foot, and requires one thing I've grown from liking to strongly disliking - planning out a character. So I'd like to return to AD&D style multiclassing where you picked your classes at the beginning, and were a bit of each even at 1st level.

2. Playing off that, we don't need so many variations of half-caster, half whatever. Have patron warrior class. Run it by itself and it's a cool class. Multiclass it with cleric and it's closer to 5e paladin. Multiclass it with warlock and it's a hexblade/blade pact. Fewer overall classes because we have a nice way to meld them.

3. That also means we don't need to worry about cherry picking and can give real features at 1st level.

3b. An offshoot of that, have official rules for starting at a higher level, with some knobs the DM can twist to match their style (high magic, gritty, etc.)

4. Since we're already looking at having classes that mutliclass nicely with others, have some classes that serve several thematics with common mechanics. Have a pet class which could be a big beast for a ranger or druid, or a special mount, or a steel defender, or a dragonling, or a necromantic skeleton, or whatever. These classes would be recommended to multiclass with other classes and not take as a single class.

5. Races/Heritage are big in terms of total power. It will make a large impact on your character, including at higher levels. Leaving design space for things like a tiny flying pixie, a large sized centaur or minotaur, a flying race, and other options where there's enough you are giving up not taking other races that it is balanced by those opportunity costs.

5b. Including more feats for future growth down heritage routes.

6. Remove boring math adjustment magic items. So no Plus X magic items, just ones that DO things. Keep magic items out of the character advancement math.

7. Remove boring math adjustments elsewhere. Don't have a fighting style that gives +2 to hit in archery, have one that does interesting and active things with archery.

8. Make fighting styles (two weapon, weapon and shield, weapon and free hand, two handed weapon, throw weapon, and ranged attacks) each have something that they are best at. Preferably in a rock-paper-scissor way.

9. Rebalance the classes so that they don't have different rates of resource attrition and differening lengths of adventuring days affect them very different. This could be moving to more AED (leaving off the U for now) from 4e, or other methods. And if length of adventuring day stays a big deal, give baked-in knobs for the DM to twist to match their style.

10. Embrace upcasting - make every spell do this, and stay on target so that the spell you got at 1st could still be a signature spell casting at 5th level and it's not underpowered. And if we are still doing 5e style spell slots (which we might not, with #9), have that the number of slots very slowly increases, but the level of the slot increases. So a 2nd level pure caster might have four 1st level slots, and a 5th level pure caster might have only six slots but they are two each of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level. And at 10th level the same caster have eight total, two each of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level slots (and no 1st!) - remembering that those lower level spells known are scaling properly, not slowly, by level.

11. Allow/require some spells to be learned with options. Like "Elemental Ball" might be a 2nd level spell, and you must choose an element when you learn it. Fire might do the most damage in the radius, while Thunderball would do good damage and toss people away and prone. (And, since we're scaling, upcasting Fireball to 3rd level would do 8d6 fire damage, save for half.)

12. Have a lot more out-of-combat abilities, and if there are choices don't make they the same currency as combat abilities. For instance, don't grant a feat and have the feat be for combat or non-combat. Instead at times grant a combat feat and other times grant an out-of-combat feat.

13. Keep background and make it more important, and add in culture much like background which carries things that in 5e are embedded in race.

14. Move things away from spells. This may happen as part of 9, but things like Hunter's Mark shouldn't be a spell. Actually, Invocations like a warlock probably fit better for a ranger in the first place. Which should be an option for classes. So you have a hedge witch as a druid/invocation, or a warlock with a (warlock caster)/invocation, a ranger as a scout/invocation, etc.

EDIT: There are threads about hiring an editor. Guess I reached that length. Fixed a bunch of word problems.

This is just off the top of my head, not sure it hands together. And it's one vision among many.
 
Last edited:

ART!

Legend
I'm not super-mechanically-minded, so here's my vague thoughts on things I'd like to see. I have no solutions per se.

- simplify the action economy, or make it easier to grok. I've seen too many eyes glaze over as I try to explain action, move, reactions, bonus actions, move as an action, and then all the "interact with object"-type options. Ugh.

- anything that can be done to make creating a new character easier for beginners.

- make rangers awesome.

- do something - anything - to make running a spellcaster easier for new players. I get the "new players should play simple classes first" advice, but I don't want to tell an excited player they can't play the cool wizard idea they have in their head.

- more rules variants in the DMG, so people can tailor things to their table more readily. "Don't want to kill off characters? Here's some death save alternatives!"
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Streamline the rules into their core essence, like getting rid of ability scores altogether and just going with modifiers.
Make races more generic, but give the flexibility of traits tied to the background.

sort of like this:

Blue5.jpg

Blue52.jpg
 


Zardnaar

Legend
But in the true perfect edition, there are no Champion Fighters.

Might not use that term might be keen for example.

But if I overhauled the 5E fighter a lot of the late game stuff would be groughy forward eg 4th attack level 15, 3rd attack level 10. More save proficiency etc.
 

But in the true perfect edition, there are no Champion Fighters.
While I appreciate the scathing wit, there really should be a simple Fighter option. It just needs to be actually, y'know, good.

But IMO there should be simple versions of nearly every class (in an ideal world, actually every class.) And complex versions too. Because "likes character archetype as a fictional concept" and "likes simplicity"/"likes complexity" are completely orthogonal things. There are people who want complex Fighters and simple Wizards. Supporting that should be a major goal.

Because there are a ton of people out there who would love to play Harry Potter, and find the D&D wizard...poorly supports this, to put it mildly. And there are folks who like both intricate/textured mechanics and swording things in the face. We've had inklings of both simple magic and complex martials in official D&D. It'd be great if that got a real serious, well-tested shot.
 


Stalker0

Legend
Start with 5e as now as your basic chassis:
  • Major rebalancing of Spells and Feats (I don't expect perfect balance but when people can look at a spell like Mordenkainen's sword and instantly notice its flat out worse than many spells below it....something needs to give).
  • Respect that fights are short, and therefore damage over time spells need to be balanced appropriately (aka much stronger than they are today).
  • A more 4e monster design approach
  • Bringing back skillpoints, probably using Pathfinder's 1e approach. I don't mind it simplier than 3e but there was a really fun customization there that 5e is lacking.
  • Split concentration into the "can't stack with other spells of this type" element and the "take damage and lose the spell" element. In trying to combine these two elements into one mechanic its too much of a crude club instead of a scalpel, and really reduces the variety of viable spellcasting in 5e. Concentration is both one of the greatest and worse changes in 5e.
  • Start looking at legendary/solo monsters reducing conditions instead of just outright killing them.
  • Balance around a 1-3 encounter adventuring day, rather than this 6-8 encounter bs.
  • Rework the monk, the sorc, and the cleric. The monk has problems, even if there are conceptual, but the million "monk sucks" threads out there should show you something is off. Sorcs don't quite fit their internal flavor, and clerics are insanely boring and de facto rely on spirit guardians to be worth a damn.
  • Add some more conditions that weaken defenses rather than actions.... aka conditions that create tension rather than making a character suck. Something like "you take 5 extra damage everytime you take damage" kind of thing. Or the ongoing damage from 4e.
  • Spend some extra rules space on classic "dungeoneering". Stealth as an example, I don't mind the natural language of 5e for many things but stealth is too powerful to be as vague as it....button that stuff up. There should be some chase rules, some notes about handling combats in a doorway (which is VERY common in some dungeon scenarios). How about a little more detail on standard illusions, give some more examples of when "interactions" would occur.
  • Drop the VSM components, its jenky and tedious. All spells should just be blockable with silence, by taking away the focus (except sorcs), or by binding the caster's hands. Spells that don't need this should have very special notes in the spell description rather than me needing to look up the VSM of every damn spell. And lastly, call out specially spells that are casual. End once and for all the debates as to whether you can cast charm person on a person and they won't know your casting it, or can I cast X spell in the dark and not break stealth because its effects are "subtle enough". I'm tired of the debates around that, literally just put a keyword on spells that are "subtle" and call it a day.
  • For the love of god throw in some ways to spend our money, proper magic item pricing is a good start.
 

Horwath

Hero
Also we do not need categories of weapons and armor.

all weapons can be in one category and all can be proficient with all weapons.

Martial performance can be measured via:
Fighting styles, Extra attack(s), attack riders(sneak attack, smite, various class bonuses), abilities that enable usage of Bonus action for extra attack, feats that augment attacks(SS, HWM, PAM, CE, Sentinel, Crusher, Piercer, Slasher, etc), basic investment in STR or DEX,

Armor can be measured only in min STR required.
No need for class proficiencies, or capping dex or having Stealth or other penalties.

Armors:
AC 11, min STR 10
AC 12, min STR 12
AC 13, min STR 14
AC 14, min STR 16
AC 15, min STR 18
AC 16, min STR 20
AC 17, min STR 22

small shield(buckler), +1 AC, min STR 10
shield, +2 AC, min STR 14

Some races(dwarves) can have cultural armor training in a way that their STR is 2pts higher for calculating what armor you can use.
Same would be for some classes/subclasses:
I.E. fighter and paladins, and some subclasses of other classes can calculate their STR 2pts higher for armors.

Not having min STR for the armor you are using would inflict disadvantages on all attack rolls, not being able to concentrate on spells and having all targets of your spells auto-succeed on their saving throws and having disadvantage on all STR and DEX saves and checks.
 


Horwath

Hero
So still nothing interesting and no reason to exist?

Sorry, no Champions enter the kingdom of good gaming.
I agree that it is not nothing interesting in mechanics.

But the point of champion is to be very simple in mechanics(and in theory not underpowered).
To give starting players, and players that do not want too much mechanics in character a solid option to play.
 


Horwath

Hero
We need to start respecting new players in not thinking they are too dumb to operate Rage.
I'm not saying that players are dumb, I'm for default feats and feat at 1st level.
But, there is a lot to learn to D&D as a new player.
Champion can get more abilities that are more "complicated" at later levels(6+).
 

Dungeon Delver's Guide

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top