D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[FitzTheRuke]

People not knowing any better and good marketing keeping it that way is the secret to success of most products throughout human history. People like to see the 'market' as a logical actor when it is, in fact a drunken toddler, primed for the rattling keys of the Guy From Marketing.

The part that will really blow people's minds: The Guy From Marketing is a drunken toddler too, and No One Knows What They Are Doing. They just try stuff, and sometimes it works.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I wouldn’t say that people who like 5e simply don’t know any better. One of the faults of the idea of “good” design (in any field) is that it takes particular solutions to be universal. What to one person might be tight, complex, player-facing game design might be overly elaborate or get in the way of another persons playstyle.

In other words, some players might love their Dragonborn hexblade sordinlock but want moar customization through feats and other players (I’ve seen plenty of them) are good with “elf with bow” as their entire character concept for an entire campaign

Most people don't even know what THEY want far or less what anyone ELSE wants.

I've seen plenty of players who are terrible at (and don't enjoy) juggling options choose to play the Wizard (when they'd be lucky to handle a Champion Fighter). It's not enough to offer simplicity and complexity in the same game (a hard enough task!) you need to get those things into the hands of the right players, who may not even be self aware enough to know what would be best for them!

 

[Warpiglet-7]

People not knowing any better and good marketing keeping it that way is the secret to success of most products throughout human history. People like to see the 'market' as a logical actor when it is, in fact a drunken toddler, primed for the rattling keys of the Guy From Marketing.

Sure.

Now realize a lot of the experienced gaming population who know the game, know the mechanics have played for years are in the mix.

So YOU can see through the tricks but they cannot.

Because all of these seasoned gamers are drunken toddlers, but not you. You got it squared up.

Your special powers are to be admired! If only others could see as clearly!

It works for Corona beer I guess so maybe it’s that sad. But mostly I think you are reaching really hard to make things the way you want them to be.

No skin off my teeth. Maybe 5.5 will be like 4e or something. Nah, they want to keep selling books.

I think the game is successful due to a combination of factors including…people like it.

Whether broad appeal is “special” or whatever is semantics. I don’t know what exactly that means. It’s special to a lot of people. Whatever that means.

 

[MockingBird]

It's kind of wild. If you like 5e it's because you don't know any better. It's an "apology" edition. So if the next iteration of D&D leans into 4e would that make it an apology edition as well? It's only successful because of the timing and the pandemic? I mean where does the line get drawn? I just don't understand why it can't just be a good game. It's fine to critique things but to imply 5e success was just a series of fortunate events blows my mind.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I posted in the wrong thread. Thought I was back in the “is 5e special?” discussion.

Hilarious. No wonder it seemed like a pile on.

Oh well—-I previously said what I don’t like about 5e upthread

 

[Warpiglet-7]

It's kind of wild. If you like 5e it's because you don't know any better. It's an "apology" edition. So if the next iteration of D&D leans into 4e would that make it an apology edition as well? It's only successful because of the timing and the pandemic? I mean where does the line get drawn? I just don't understand why it can't just be a good game. It's fine to critique things but to imply 5e success was just a series of fortunate events blows my mind.

It does not seem credible. That some portion of sales is marketing and timing makes sense…but much more to the story than that.

 

[theCourier]

5e can be good on its own merits AND appeal to a lot of audiences AND be an apology edition AND be riding on a decades-long wave of popularity. None of these things are mutually exclusive, and no one is saying they are.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

5e can be good on its own merits AND appeal to a lot of audiences AND be an apology edition AND be riding on a decades-long wave of popularity. None of these things are mutually exclusive, and no one is saying they are.

No, I think some folks are but you are correct otherwise.

 

[FireLance]

5e can be good on its own merits AND appeal to a lot of audiences AND be an apology edition AND be riding on a decades-long wave of popularity. None of these things are mutually exclusive, and no one is saying they are.

AND there is still room for improvement or at least greater modularity AND it may be time to re-examine whether the current crop of new players are more open and supportive of concepts that did not go down well with older gamers.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I wouldn’t say that people who like 5e simply don’t know any better.

I'm not saying that.

I'm saying 'The Market has Spoken' is a dumb argument wherever it raises its's pointy little head and I'm super tired of it.