D&D (2024) 2024 PHB Race discussion

[Maxperson]

They wrote "gods" in the human race entry.

As if to be human, one must be a polytheist.

The intellectual violence is a gross violation of reallife inclusivity.

No. It's written as if some humans worship gods. We know from the DMG that not all humans do and the DM decides what religious methods exist in his setting.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Done it for enough editions, but it still doesn't change the lame decision that resulted in this version of the playtest dwarf which would require me to house rule (if I decide to embrace 5.5 rather than use 5.0 or jump to another system)

Wait... you don't like the playtest Dwarf!? That seems to me to be one that would be somewhat universally loved.

 

[Greg K]

Wait... you don't like the playtest Dwarf!? That seems to me to be one that would be somewhat universally loved.

What is your basis for stating it is universally loved? Or were you being facetious?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

What is your basis for stating it is universally loved? Or were you being facetious?

No, I wasn't. Purely anecdotally everyone I've spoken to has liked it (mostly based on the tremorsense and the fusion of hill and mountain subtypes). What don't you like about it? (Honest question with no plan to argue with you about it - you are perfectly within your right to not like it - I just want to know why!)

EDIT: For the record, I'd like to point out that I didn't say that it IS universally loved, just that it seemed to me that it would be. (And only "somewhat")

 

[Greg K]

No, I wasn't. Purely anecdotally everyone I've spoken to has liked it (mostly based on the tremorsense and the fusion of hill and mountain subtypes). What don't you like about it? (Honest question with no plan to argue with you about it - you are perfectly within your right to not like it - I just want to know why!)

EDIT: For the record, I'd like to point out that I didn't say that it IS universally loved, just that it seemed to me that it would be. (And only "somewhat")

I love tremorsense being in the game. I just don't like it for dwarves as it does not fit my idea of dwarves and I have seen mixed reactions to its inclusion.

 

[Maxperson]

No, I wasn't. Purely anecdotally everyone I've spoken to has liked it (mostly based on the tremorsense and the fusion of hill and mountain subtypes). What don't you like about it? (Honest question with no plan to argue with you about it - you are perfectly within your right to not like it - I just want to know why!)

EDIT: For the record, I'd like to point out that I didn't say that it IS universally loved, just that it seemed to me that it would be. (And only "somewhat")

I like the tremorsense ability. I do not like it for stonecunning. That has always meant something very different in D&D and I don't like that change. I would rather see forgewise leave, a new ability to tremorsense given, and stonecunning to be a more traditional version.

 

[Maxperson]

I love tremorsense being in the game. I just don't like it for dwarves as it does not fit my idea of dwarves and I have seen mixed reactions to its inclusion.

I don't mind it for dwarves. They are in tune with the stone and I can see it in a limited manner like it is presented. I just don't like it as stonecunning.

 

[Greg K]

I don't mind it for dwarves. They are in tune with the stone and I can see it in a limited manner like it is presented. I just don't like it as stonecunning.

I don't like it being applied to all dwarves as there are multiple "universes" and dwarves are not associated with earth in all of them (I have seen third party and homebrew campaigns where they do not dwell underground). It is also why I do not like stone cunning as a default ability- it is cultural for them living underground, but again there are campaigns in which dwarves do not live underground or associated with mining (plus, I don't see why it could not apply to humans (or characters of any race) with a mining background).

 

[Maxperson]

I don't like it being applied to all dwarves as there are multiple "universes" and dwarves are not associated with earth in all of them (I have seen third party and homebrew campaigns where they do not dwell underground). It is also why I do not like stone cunning as a default ability- it is cultural for them living underground, but again there are campaigns in which dwarves do not live underground or associated with mining (plus, I don't see why it could not apply to humans (or characters of any race) with a mining background).

Settings change things. If there's a universe/setting/crystal sphere/elephants on the back of a turtle swimming through space where dwarves aren't associated with stone, they should be given setting specific abilities. The vast majority of the time they are stoneworkers and the default set up should be created with that in mind.

 

[Greg K]

Settings change things. If there's a universe/setting/crystal sphere/elephants on the back of a turtle swimming through space where dwarves aren't associated with stone, they should be given setting specific abilities. The vast majority of the time they are stoneworkers and the default set up should be created with that in mind.

I think the game should remove anything non-biological from race. Then have a choice of environments/cultures. An underground or mining culture or background could have stonecunning as part of it and then note that under dwarves that the underground environment/culture or mining background is common for dwarves in many settings so ask your DM if this is the player is required to take it. Also, it makes it easier to have dwarves raised among another race or culture.

Then again, we are getting into what I consider a missed opportunity by the designers when it comes to races and cultures.