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D&D (2024) 2024 PHB Race discussion

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I think the game should remove anything non-biological from race. Then have a choice of environments/cultures. An underground or mining culture or background could have stonecunning as part of it and then note that under dwarves that the underground environment/culture or mining background is common for dwarves in many settings so ask your DM if this is the player is required to take it. Also, it makes it easier for dwarves raised among another race or culture.
I think stonecunning and the tremorsense are biological, though. They're the product of a race living primarily in mountains and working with stone for millennia, since their creation. Excepting setting specific changes of course.
 

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Greg K

Legend
I think stonecunning and the tremorsense are biological, though. They're the product of a race living primarily in mountains and working with stone for millennia, since their creation. Excepting setting specific changes of course.
Whereas I have never felt stonecunning was biological, but something culturally learned . Meanwhile, tremorsense feels, to me, as something being thrown in out of nowhere by the designers (as I don't recall it ever being part of dwarves in any edition although I could be wrong for 4e as I only own PHB2).
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
Whereas I have never felt stonecunning was biological, but something culturally learned . Meanwhile, tremorsense feels, to me, as something being thrown in out of nowhere by the designers (as I don't recall it ever being part of dwarves in any edition although I could be wrong for 4e as I only own PHB2).

You're not wrong. The closest equivalent would be back when they could sense secret doors (some of the fluff was due to just being able to tell that there was space behind that wall).
 

Scribe

Legend
I don’t mind the prevalence of gods, but I do think “dwarves all know how to use these tools because the gods did it” feels like a cop-out. It’s still a cultural trait, it’s just attributing the universality of it to divine will, which is… not better… like “oh, this group of people don’t all share this cultural trait because of genetics. They all share it because god made them that way. Yikes.
I had been wondering about this, and I'm pretty surprised to see stuff like this and the Giff gun origin, still remain.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I had been wondering about this, and I'm pretty surprised to see stuff like this and the Giff gun origin, still remain.
I just reread the giff, having just glossed over it when I first got the spelljammer books, and it's traits are actually pretty boring. Add some damage, gods gave you gun mastery, and hippo build. Of those, the most interesting to me is hippo build. That bonus damage isn't really all that interest and like many, I find the gods gave this to you a poor way to still give proficiencies without calling them proficiencies. It does have some good benefits if you have a gun, but still isn't that interesting.

I don't know what I'd have given Giff otherwise, but I'd keep the gun fiction as just the gift gravitating to classes that have martial weapon proficiency rather than any other special benefit.
 

Remathilis

Legend
I had been wondering about this, and I'm pretty surprised to see stuff like this and the Giff gun origin, still remain.
There is only so much you can do with biology without being overpowered, and the alternative is to give every race free magic (which is already prevalent to the point of being nonspecial) or magic-like abilities. I mean, Elves can trance and get free proficiencies because they're dipping into "ancestral memories", and nobody blinked an eye (that I'm aware of).
 

Scribe

Legend
There is only so much you can do with biology without being overpowered, and the alternative is to give every race free magic (which is already prevalent to the point of being nonspecial) or magic-like abilities. I mean, Elves can trance and get free proficiencies because they're dipping into "ancestral memories", and nobody blinked an eye (that I'm aware of).
For what its worth, I have zero issue with the various races have distinct biological differences from ASI to special rules, but if people thought there was a problem, 'a god did it' is not a fix. :D

I get it, the cultural angle seemed weird when it was "well my realm isnt Forgotten Realms"...

Looking at the packet, either its about Planescape, or that 'new modern setting' is simply going to be "The D&D Multiverse." and so is that how they are going to get away with it?

Look at the Human entry, or Tiefling for example. Seems pretty 'everyone is like this' to me.
 


TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
There is only so much you can do with biology without being overpowered, and the alternative is to give every race free magic (which is already prevalent to the point of being nonspecial) or magic-like abilities. I mean, Elves can trance and get free proficiencies because they're dipping into "ancestral memories", and nobody blinked an eye (that I'm aware of).
Oh there was blinking. Definitely blinking, and maybe more than that.
 

Branduil

Hero
I just want to point out that Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are not "removed from the game." Even only using these rules, you can still play them, and in fact you can play with other varieties of mixed heritage as well. I think this is one of the good changes in the rules, in terms of not making specific forms of mixed heritage somehow distinct from others.

Now, to get to the big problem here, as others pointed out, "the gods did it" is NOT a solution to racial essentialism, and in fact arguably makes it worse. "All Elves are trained in longswords as babies" is very stupid worldbuilding, but not necessarily racist. "The gods make all dwarves good stonecutters," OTOH, is at the very least, creating the potential for racist tropes to further permeate D&D fiction. They basically made the worst choice possible in trying to have their cake and eat it too, now not only are cultural traits universal, but they're divinely mandated! Horrible stuff, and I hope they listen sincerely to feedback on this.

What they should do, IMO, is separate the cultural traits entirely and put them into Background. Eliminate lineages entirely and change them into "Cultures" that any race can choose. Now obviously there can be some traits that come from the racial background: senses, appearance, dragonbreath, lifespan, trance, etc. but racial attributes should be limited solely to the physical. Now if you want to run a game where a human grows up in an Elven culture but some Elves think he's an inferior Elf, that's your choice, but that shouldn't be the position endorsed by the game's creators.
 

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