D&D (2024) Should we have Level 1 ASIs at all?

[Ath-kethin]

I have used a standard array for ability scores and no ASIs for over twenty years now, across three editions of D&D (2nd, 3.x, and 5th) and probably a dozen other games. The only impact I've seen is a massive reduction in gamist thinking in character creation, or trying to justify a character concept as Race X because Race X will give a beneficial boost to a given stat.

I didn't like the ASIs then and I don't like ASIs now. Describe elves as quicker and smarter than others, fine. But give players the choice to lean into or away from that trope.

 

[Horwath]

I have used a standard array for ability scores and no ASIs for over twenty years now, across three editions of D&D (2nd, 3.x, and 5th) and probably a dozen other games. The only impact I've seen is a massive reduction in gamist thinking in character creation, or trying to justify a character concept as Race X because Race X will give a beneficial boost to a given stat.

I didn't like the ASIs then and I don't like ASIs now. Describe elves as quicker and smarter than others, fine. But give players the choice to lean into or away from that trope.

This.

elves can be faster by having 5ft movement extra or bonus int based skill.

anything but touching ability scores.

They matter too much to be based on race choice.

 

[Umbran]

A character creation process without level 1 ASIs could instead have adjusted standard array and point buy parameters, allowing 5e-like ability score totals to be assigned in a single character creation set. Rolled scores would be a bit harder to adjust...

I would not be terribly surprised if someone has already fiddled around with a straight point-buy system that doesn't need the ASI, but the results were found significantly wanting for some reason. Unintended consequences or features of the result could make having level 1 ASIs seem a better road.

 

[Nefermandias]

The main reason being that people like ability score increases, no matter the level. So why not give people what they like.

Sure you could have a safety net mulligan system but why have that when you can just give an ASI at first level.

Have you heard of point buy?
I'm not even sure why 5e brought rolled scores back.

 

[Marandahir]

Wait, are One D&D Lineages still essentially 3 Feats plus ribbons, in the 2014 sense of the term Feat?

If so, you can drop the 1st level ASI and consider the lineages balanced anyway. I thought that was the big mechanical benefit to dropping the ASIs - giving them room to flesh out the lineages with special FEATures unique to being a member of that lineage.

 

[Yaarel]

Wait, are One D&D Lineages still essentially 3 Feats plus ribbons, in the 2014 sense of the term Feat?

If so, you can drop the 1st level ASI and consider the lineages balanced anyway. I thought that was the big mechanical benefit to dropping the ASIs - giving them room to flesh out the lineages with special FEATures unique to being a member of that lineage.

Not including ability score improvements:

The Players Handbook races are more like 1½ feats. (But the races are unequal so this is a rough upper average.)

The playtest races are closer to 1 feat.



Fizbans and Spelljammer have races that are more powerful, about 2 feats (which feels more like 4e races). But the playtest walks this back.

 

[Yaarel]

Where a "standard" feat is worth 8 points:

It might seem as if:

ELF
4 points: spells (spell level 1 per day and spell level 2 per day)
2 points: cantrip
½ point: trance
1 point: charm resistance
1½ points: skill (Perception is the best skill)
2 points: darkvision

At first glance, this looks as if about 11 points. 12 points would be 1½ feats. However, because the spells are delayed to higher levels, the skill is fungible by gaining it from background, and the utility of the darkvision is debatable if partymembers are carrying lights anyway, it is defacto closer to 1 feat.

2½: spells
2: cantrip
½: trance
1: charm resistance
1: skill
1: darkvision

 

[Lojaan]

You make a good point