D&D 5E Players voting on each other's alignments?

[Maxperson]

Here's the scenario I foresee (because I've seen it happen):

"Hey Bob, I think your character is evil."

"How do you figure that?"

"He does X. X is evil."

"I have him do X because X is Good."

"Nope. X is evil."

"My family does X. That is literally our family business. X is a deeply and reverently held tradition for us. Also, you do realize most people do X. The DM did X right before we started the game. Gary is doing X right now!"

"Welp... I'll just let that accusation hang in the air. Hope everyone isn't feeling attacked or uncomfortable right now and the game isn't poisoned by this knowledge of how I see all of you hanging over our heads."

I've seen that, but it's very rare and I haven't seen it since 1e/2e.

 

[Shiroiken]

Back in 3E we had a player who was playing a paladin that was becoming dissatisfied, and asked everyone in secret what we felt his alignment was, as he was considering different prestige classes. It was unanimous as LN, but the player just couldn't accept that, claiming he thought he was LE. Sadly, in reality he just really just wanted to be a Blackguard and was looking for an excuse.

 

[MNblockhead]

Isn't being LE a requirement for being a DM? Or was that only Gygax's law?

I once played with a DM who didn't have the monsters stab downed (0 HP) characters!

What's next, give everyone a +3 lollipop of healing ‽

 

[CreamCloud0]

I am desperate to know what X was in the context of the example, but I suspect most of it won't be stuff like this, but rather people getting into really circular/pointless arguments about the L/N/C alignments or trying to argue the toss about whether something is actually "Good" or not.

Probably something to the effect of

“I can’t believe you murdered those men in cold blood”

“They were thieves and criminals, it was an act of justice”

“They had surrendered to us willingly, it was our duty to deliver them to the guards safely”

“Their crimes were too numerous, to let them live would be a crime in itself”

“You’re just a bloodthirsty thug”

“Lies and slander, I am a noble warrior of what is right and good”

and so on and so forth...

 

[Vaalingrade]

Probably something to the effect of

“I can’t believe you murdered those men in cold blood”

“They were thieves and criminals, it was an act of justice”

“They had surrendered to us willingly, it was our duty to deliver them to the guards safely”

“Their crimes were too numerous, to let them live would be a crime in itself”

“You’re just a bloodthirsty thug”

“Lies and slander, I am a noble warrior of what is right and good”

and so on and so forth...

It's been over way more innocuous things than the Punisher's status as Actual Villain.

It's usually over lying, poison, or promiscuousness.

When you get to call someone's actions good or evil everyone's weird moral hangups come online.

 

[R_J_K75]

I am desperate to know what X was in the context of the example

My thought is that "X" in the post should be changed to "#2"

 

[bloodtide]

I see lots of problems with players pointing fingers and making judgments.

I don't often see the way of a player thinks they are role playing Neutral Good and then have the other players have some sort of sound, reasonable case to say the character is Chaotic Good, and then the player would say "oh, thanks fellow players I will change my character's alignment."

As far too many players role play "chaotic evil stupid", but what to hide behind "perfect good saint" just by default. They want to do whatever they want to on a whim...and it's always pure evil...like slaughtering helpless innocents....and THEN they want everyone to react and treat them like they are the Perfect Good Hero.

And then you want the players to judge each other? "Dude you slaughtered every innocent creature in the kingdom...your Lawful Good!"

 

[Maxperson]

When you get to call someone's actions good or evil everyone's weird moral hangups come online.

Having or not having alignment doesn't alter this in the least. Good and evil are in the real world and people understand(or have a good idea) which is which. You can get rid of alignment and if someone walks up to a little old lady crossing the street and hack her down, my PC is going to call him an evil bastard and that statement will have 0 to do with alignment. Same with me as a player saying that what the player's PC did was evil. Still nothing to do with alignment.

 

[Mad_Jack]

Here's the thing about alignment, though - it's always been just a vague shorthand to describe the general ethical traits of a character...
It's even more subjective and open to differences in individual perception than assigning characters a place on the "short/tall" and "thin/fat" axis.
Not all interactions are as "clearly" labeled as "Good" vs "Evil" as saving an orphanage full of kids, which in itself is fraught with complications because of the character's reasons why they did it - some because it was "The Right Thing To Do", some out of compassion, some out of the thrill of being in a dangerous situation, and others because the reward/risk ratio was sufficient...

I once played a Chaotic Neutral character who ended up becoming the moral compass of a mostly Lawful Good party simply because he enjoyed playing head games with others and his outsider's more objective point of view of their principles gave him the opportunity to point out their occasional hypocrisy and subtlely (or otherwise) nudge/nettle them towards acting more in accordance with them.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Having or not having alignment doesn't alter this in the least. Good and evil are in the real world and people understand(or have a good idea) which is which. You can get rid of alignment and if someone walks up to a little old lady crossing the street and hack her down, my PC is going to call him an evil bastard and that statement will have 0 to do with alignment. Same with me as a player saying that what the player's PC did was evil. Still nothing to do with alignment.

Except this thread has nothing to do with having or not having an alignment, and everything to do with expressly encouraging other players to judge the actions of other people's characters as Good or Evil in an open forum for all of their roleplay, not just extremes people like to use to justify 'real' alignment.

Yes, we can appeal to people's visceral emotion talking bout murdering little old ladies, but that ignores the 'evils' some people see in things like drinking, diet, sexuality, language, lifestyle, or, say, being judgmental of other people's behavior when it's none of their business.