D&D General Why Editions Don't Matter

[Imaro]

If you don't think its possible to get advice that looks good on the surface but is terrible in execution, or that such events have a price in terms of players' impression of a game, I don't know what to tell you.

Yes but there is literally no guarantee that advice in a book vs youtube or the internet will be better or worse. This is something that can happen regardless of where the advice happens to be.

EDIT: Yeah ultimately you have to make a decision on whether something is worth trying and whether it will work for you or not... and regardless of where you got it from it may not. But I personally think finding what works right for you is part of the hobby and that includes figuring out what does't.

 

[Campbell]

A core feature of any playstyle include the expectations that we all have for one another and the structure of play. I cannot fundamentally get the same experience I get from Blades in the Dark with a different sort of authority structure or less binding mechanics because those mechanisms and that play structure are critical to how I navigate the play space and make decisions. Can we basically change the structure of play, authority constructs and expectations to the point that we get something close? Maybe, but then we're essentially playing Blades.

I especially cannot achieve anything like the experience of running Blades in a game where I have to decide everything that happens. Even more than as player the experience of running a game and the types of fun I get to have as a GM are intricately tied to these structural elements.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Here's an example... traditionally D&D gives the narration of resulting fiction to the DM on both a failure and success... however I can drift narrative authority pretty easily so that players can have it on successful actions and it doesn't cause any major changes or problems with the game.

I don't really feel any more enlightened than I did before. Does "drifting" just mean that, since you have the power, you can occasionally deign to delegate it if it suits you? That doesn't really seem like a particularly relevant property to me. It's still controlled by the DM. As others have just recently argued to me, if the consistent pattern is not doing things unless prompted by someone else, then the person doing the prompting has the power. Unless that argument was incorrect...?

 

[Imaro]

I don't really feel any more enlightened than I did before. Does "drifting" just mean that, since you have the power, you can occasionally deign to delegate it if it suits you? That doesn't really seem like a particularly relevant property to me. It's still controlled by the DM. As others have just recently argued to me, if the consistent pattern is not doing things unless prompted by someone else, then the person doing the prompting has the power. Unless that argument was incorrect...?

It's drifting the mechanics in different directions without breaking the game to suit different playstyles.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yes but there is literally no guarantee that advice in a book vs youtube or the internet will be better or worse. This is something that can happen regardless of where the advice happens to be.

EDIT: Yeah ultimately you have to make a decision on whether something is worth trying and whether it will work for you or not... and regardless of where you got it from it may not. But I personally think finding what works right for you is part of the hobby and that includes figuring out what does't.

There's no guarantee of anything. But products are sold based on, y'know, trying to make something good and worthwhile. Seems like a pretty good assumption that if someone sells you a $50 book that purports to "guide" you on how to play a game, it should serve that function, no? And if it doesn't, you can validly say you were sold a bill of goods.

 

[Imaro]

There's no guarantee of anything. But products are sold based on, y'know, trying to make something good and worthwhile. Seems like a pretty good assumption that if someone sells you a $50 book that purports to "guide" you on how to play a game, it should serve that function, no? And if it doesn't, you can validly say you were sold a bill of goods.

And yet there's no guarantee of anything...

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It's drifting the mechanics in different directions without breaking the game to suit different playstyles.

Again, I don't understand what that means. You just...opt to start playing in a completely different way now and then? That doesn't seem any different from just being "DM says" etc., it's just this time "DM says you should ask Bob."

And yet there's no guarantee of anything...

...yes. I literally said that. Just because there is no guarantee of anything doesn't mean you can't have a grievance. That's literally why contract law exists.

 

[Imaro]

Again, I don't understand what that means. You just...opt to start playing in a completely different way now and then? That doesn't seem any different from just being "DM says" etc., it's just this time "DM says you should ask Bob."

So you do get it... You opt to play in a different way. I guess my question is why does it need to be any different or more complicated that the DM says you should ask Bob (and now that's binding)??

EDIT: If I and my group decide in 5e players are capable of creating player quests... how is this any different then a game of 4e with player quests?

...yes. I literally said that. Just because there is no guarantee of anything doesn't mean you can't have a grievance. That's literally why contract law exists.

Ok let me try this a different way... Apparently you and some other posters believe the 5e books are incomplete and don't teach the game (and if I am lumping you in mistakenly I apologize but the example should still stand even if you remove yourself)... the fact that it's in a book changes this from the same situation if it was a video or a forum post that claimed to teach D&D how exactly?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

...yes. I literally said that. Just because there is no guarantee of anything doesn't mean you can't have a grievance. That's literally why contract law exists.

Um .... no.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Ok let me try this a different way... Apparently you and some other posters believe the 5e books are incomplete and don't teach the game (and if I am lumping you in mistakenly I apologize but the example should still stand even if you remove yourself)... the fact that it's in a book changes this from the same situation if it was a video or a forum post that claimed to teach D&D how exactly?

Because they are asking to be paid for it?

Like, what's the difference between getting medical advice from a dude on Facebook or dietary advice a gal on YouTube and getting advice from a physician or nutritionist? Someone is paying the latter two for their services, and if those services are faulty, you may have a legitimate grievance against them. Nothing guarantees that your doctor is going to give you better medical care than your weird aunt who likes herbs, but we still expect professionals like doctors, lawyers, and architects to be better at their jobs than untrained shlubs. Game designers who are selling a product are making an offer, a claim that their product is worth money. That alone is vastly different from some rando on Reddit giving their instructions on how utterly essential it is to make every adventure an invisible railroad—or, if you prefer a positive example, from someone like Matt Colville advising people on how to spice up their game by using certain tips and tricks.

Um .... no.

So contracts don't exist to enforce agreements between parties and formalize the process of addressing grievances should one or both sides breach those agreements.

What, exactly, does contract law do then?