D&D 5E Regarding DMG, Starter Set and Essentials kit: Are they good for the starting DMs?
- Thread starter Alby87
- Start date
nvm
ETA- to get back to the OP's original question, the new Starter Set (Dragons of Stormwreck Isle) is an excellent beginner set for new players and DMs to learn with. I am not as familiar with Essentials but I have heard good things about it.
In addition, WoTC is increasingly pairing instructional videos with written material, which is good for new players. The best way to learn is by doing; the second best way is by combining written material with video instruction.
It is my observation that most young people (high school) have a very low tolerance for reading material in order to learn to do things, as they are used to finding easy-to-use video explainers on most things, and combining video with text is probably the way to go moving forward.
ETA- to get back to the OP's original question, the new Starter Set (Dragons of Stormwreck Isle) is an excellent beginner set for new players and DMs to learn with. I am not as familiar with Essentials but I have heard good things about it.
In addition, WoTC is increasingly pairing instructional videos with written material, which is good for new players. The best way to learn is by doing; the second best way is by combining written material with video instruction.
It is my observation that most young people (high school) have a very low tolerance for reading material in order to learn to do things, as they are used to finding easy-to-use video explainers on most things, and combining video with text is probably the way to go moving forward.
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Imaro
Legend
Say what?? I must have imagined all of the games being streamed, the games being run at various conventions, the posters on this very site claiming they run games, the games on Roll20, etc. Because clearly the game actively doesn't want anyone to play it (I guess the game is also sentient now... go figure).
As for other games having a lower burden on the DM... I'm going to assume that just means it's offloaded elsewhere... I honestly wonder which is actually preferred and easier in order to get the most people playing a game... a single DM who takes on the majority of running/teaching the game or a game where every single player is required to learn the entire game and be invested in it from the beginning at the same level as a DM but with slightly less responsibilities.
I don't see how WotC is hindering people's ability to find out about other rpg's... I think that WotC makes a good game that serves most people (who also probably approach rpg's in a much more casual fashion than most here) well enough that they don't feel any burning need to seek out other rpg's... in the same way most families have one or two, maybe three staple boardgames they play when they have leisure time but don't actively collect or buy multiple boardgames.
Wait... what?? What other platforms offer the same functionality as D&D Beyond and when did it becomes WotC's obligation to actively promote other ttrpg's on anything they own? That's not actively hindering the knowledge of other ttrpg's... It's like claiming Coke is hindering knowledge of Pepsi because it doesn't feature Pepsi in commercials??
Lol... The two things you cite here are not one and the same, though you might feel they are. It can be both accessible and "dump" the most work on a single individual. In fact I would argue it's easier to get one person invested in something and have them evangelize it to their friends & family, and perhaps run a game or two for them than to get the entire family invested in a game they have never played before in order to sample its gameplay...
Ruin Explorer
Legend
Yes, you have misunderstood, because you did what in the UK we call "picking up [cigarette butts]" (that's not exactly the phrase we use but it involves a word that's a homophobic slur in US!), something I've absolutely been guilty of in the past, so I can't zing you too hard. I.e. you didn't look at what I was responding to, you just made assumptions about what I was saying. Again, I've done this, I know how it is.
I'm not saying "PANIC!!!!" in a general sense. I'm saying that new DMs are right to be concerned that D&D is asking for a huge amount of work from them, that the reaction of horror they feel when 2-3 (and really 3 in their case) books slam down in front of them is not a completely irrational or unwarranted one.
I concur with this figure. Certainly my 80% was, but I think you agree with the general gist, that a lot of "tired" or "old" arguments are that way because there is something to them, and essentially calling an argument "tired and old" (something you will note I tend to avoid) is essentially just calling it "boring" rather than actually arguing against it.
Anyway, back on the panic point, that was about a specific situation that can occur to individual new DMs.
Talking generally, right now, I think the designers of D&D should be doing the opposite of panicking, to be clear. With 2024 and 1D&D, there is a true golden opportunity. The designers are in a situation where they can do the following:
1) Look at how D&D is presented and what the rules are, and identify how it could be made more accessible.
Unfortunately so far with 1D&D, what we've seen is 1 step 1 step back (not 2 at least!). For everything they've made more straightforward (two-weapon fighting, for example), they've made something else more complicated (loads of stuff only working on an Attack Action specifically).
I hope this improves. But for example, as much as the Rogue might be slightly easier to run, the Ranger is more complicated and it's like, why? I feel like this is a good opportunity they're missing.
2) Look at the DMG and assess what it should actually be doing.
Like y'know, acting as a GUIDE for a DUNGEON MASTER < waggles eyebrows frantically >
Instead of a random collection of vague resources that are presented very poorly, which is the current 5E DMG.
They could do something superb. They have the technology. They have the billion dollars, well, you know what I mean! They could also make it a lot easier to put encounters together, frankly. Nobody should be having to pay for D&D Beyond to access the Encounter Builder, for example. D&D is complex when it comes to encounters, but it could be made easier (esp. with tables and/or tech).
3) Look at the resources they have around learning to DM, and instead of trying to nickle and dime people, or trying to convince everyone to buy a starter set - because a lot of people just won't, especially in this day and age - do their very best to provide great, easily-accessible resources for new DMs.
I don't think we even disagree that these are good goals, right? Or do you?
That's an wholly inaccurate assumption.
D&D's heavy DM load is not something all RPGs have, and it's not something RPGs have to have. With many RPGs, it simply isn't there in the same way, because you just don't need that level of prep/work.
I can't really argue that further because it's just not true and it's clear you haven't run other RPGs because you're making that assumption. It's simply a mistaken assumption, based I assume on the incorrect thinking that all RPGs involve equal amounts of work/prep/etc.
I didn't suggest they were. Indeed, there's no inherent connection. I do actually agree that making one person evangelize can be helpful, but my suggestion is that D&D puts too much weight on them, and makes people reluctant to be in that role. D&D has notably always had a DM shortage, and the fact that it requires vastly more prep than most modern RPGs does not seem likely to be unrelated to this. Back in the day, when most RPGs made the DM do a ton of work, there was less of a difference. But over the years, most RPGs have gradually dialled down how much the DM needs to do - D&D did a little with 4E, interestingly, before 5E increased it again, though still to less than 3E levels - or have simply been designed so the DM doesn't need to do much prep (in some cases almost none at all - unimaginable as that might seem).
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Imaro
Legend
Pleas tell me more about wholly inaccurate assumptions...
What exactly is the "needed" level of prep/work? I can buy/download for free a 1 page dungeon off DM's guild, glance over it once and run it for a group. With D&D Beyond I can literally look up any monster I need with the touch of a few buttons... So tell me what is this heavy prep that is "needed"?
Remember what I said earlier... the wholly inaccurate assumptions bit... yeah that's this part. Oh I've played quite a few non-D&D systems and the problem is I don't agree with your basic premise, different styles of running D&D require different prep/workload/etc. You're incorrectly assuming alot that just isn't true. It might help if you considered the possibility that you aren't the holder of "TRUTH" when it comes to D&D...
You implied they were. And you didn't suggest anything you stated it as a given, however D&D provides numerous tools and resources that can minimize that "weight" to near zero. the game itself has a deceptively simple play loop that can handle anything from contained dungeon crawling to space and planes hopping as well as the market share, revenue and externalities that only D&D can leverage.
I do think the DMG is for dungeon masters. Says so right on the tin. What it doesn't say is "start here if you're a new DM". Those would be called starter sets. Can the DMG give more guidance for new DMs? Sure. Anything can be improved. As one random-ish example, I think there should be an actual play step by step of a combat encounter round in the PHB with the same encounter discussed in the DMG with some notations. Probably starting out with how the encounter could be set up to avoid combat altogether if the DM wants to make that an option. But I also don't think it should be more than a page in the PHB and at most a couple of pages in the DMG.
As far as the load on the DM, that's why they also sell modules for those who don't want to create their own worlds.
A lot also rests on the "GM describes the situation". Does the GM say "You see hyena-headed people" or "You see hyena-headed creatures" or "You see gnolls"?
Does the GM say "You see a hallway" or "You see a hallway - it seems suspiciously open!" or "You see a hallway with a tripwire running across it"?
Does the GM say "When you go into the shop, you see a person" or "When you go into the shop, only the shopkeeper is there" or "When you go into the shop, the shopkeeper seems friendly"? Or does the GM not say anything about the shop at all, and just tell the players to deduct some gp and update their equipment list?
It's possible for a RPG to give clear advice on these things: Moldvay Basic does, In A Wicked Age does, Torchbearer does (just to pick on 3 RPGs that have been on my mind recently). Classic Traveller doesn't, and that is one reason why, although it was the first RPG I owned and read (around 1978 or 1979), I wasn't able to work out how to play it until some time later, after I'd played D&D (using Moldvay Basic).
I think we can accept that D&D will remain DM-centric in the way you describe, and will remain based around an "adventuring day" which requires guidelines on encounters per day and encounter difficulty. (The departure from these features in 4e D&D is not likely to be repeated! But the move from asymmetric recovery periods to symmetric ones - ie the downplaying of short rests - seems likely to continue, and that does make GMing easier.)
I also think that levels will remain. They are utterly fundamental to D&D, and provide a basic motivation for play - ie players do things so they can level up so they can do more things with bigger numbers and/or more intricate mechanics.
But accepting these constraints as given, it is nevertheless possible to give advice on how to make the game work as a GM. There are plenty of examples to be found in, and cribbed from, other RPGs.
AnotherGuy
Hero
Some experienced DMs here want 50$ book (1 of 3 required) to be THE instructional manual on the game...because it makes perfect sense with reality given
1. Newcomers usually get into the game as players before advancing to become DMs (if ever).
2. Kids usually read far less these days and learn new games via streaming and instructional videos.
3. There are 3 starter sets available for a fraction of the price of the core books that do teach newcomers how to run a game.
4. A tome (or series of tomes) is far more intimidating than a starter set.
1. Newcomers usually get into the game as players before advancing to become DMs (if ever).
2. Kids usually read far less these days and learn new games via streaming and instructional videos.
3. There are 3 starter sets available for a fraction of the price of the core books that do teach newcomers how to run a game.
4. A tome (or series of tomes) is far more intimidating than a starter set.
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You’re opening your post with a personal attack. Please don’t do that.
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