• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Rings of Power -- all opinions and spoilers welcome thread.

Zardnaar

Legend
Yeah, and the pacing is different as a result. I think that Covid conditions may have minimized the possibility of larger crowd scenes, bit the actual CGI and art design issues jaw dropping.

Show had some issues. Pacing, boring in parts, some stupid bits but it was very pretty. Scenary was pretty (gotta say that being a kiwi).

Shadow and Bone is probably the best of the 5 shows in terms of bang for buck whole season was 60ish million.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

312267945_10221201627381485_1178476391237966490_n.jpg
 

I've said it before, but setting this show in a D&D setting would have provided the showrunners, cast and crew infinitely more flexibility & freedom & opportunities & less headaches then setting Rings of Power on Middle Earth and having every decision anaylized by a fan base that firmly believe if Tolkien didn't write it himself, it has no place in the stories (not a criticism of either side of these debates, it just is, what it is, and I'm not a Tolkien scholar, so I leave it to others to debate the minatea of Middle Earth Lore).

Or, if they needed the Tolkien name as a marketing candy, they could have focussed on original stories... I won't make a poll of what works and what doesn't work for the viewers, but I feel that the "best parts" are:

1. Adar, Bronwyn and Arondir and, generally, the Southlands part (= all original elements)
2. The friendship of a dwarf and an elf, with no "added bonus" from them being Elrond and Durin
3. I could have bought the reverse-kryptonite of the elves as it is supposed to add a sense of urgency if it wasn't mithril they were discussing in the context of fighting the Doom of Mandos...

What I did find weaker? Gandalf (if he's him), but could have liked him as a one of the Blue wizards or as a generic magic-user from the sky, Galandriel as a war trauma psycho, Numenor political deal being too time compressed to be even understandable. Three elements that could be corrected easily by... introducing a new character or place instead (a new elf-warrior-maiden consumed with grief...) It would be difficult to remake Numenor, granted.

The only counter example I think of is the Harfoot, which are a "new thing" that I didn't like, but I see that they are generally liked. What I found jarring was the discrepancy between the story they tell ("we're a closely-knit community, nobody walks alone") and the reality (You broke your leg? Then you and your family will all die in the wilderness but don't worry, we'll do an eulogy!") that makes them creepy dans dystopian. That, and the crummy songs.




(as an aside, I don't get the argument about the show looking bad... the Numenorean expeditionary force of 3 measly ships was certainly a bit underwhelming -- since sending a fleet was such a big deal, politically, I expected more than three... -- but it's really great-looking...
 

Or, if they needed the Tolkien name as a marketing candy, they could have focussed on original stories... I won't make a poll of what works and what doesn't work for the viewers, but I feel that the "best parts" are:

1. Adar, Bronwyn and Arondir and, generally, the Southlands part (= all original elements)
2. The friendship of a dwarf and an elf, with no "added bonus" from them being Elrond and Durin
3. I could have bought the reverse-kryptonite of the elves as it is supposed to add a sense of urgency if it wasn't mithril they were discussing in the context of fighting the Doom of Mandos...

What I did find weaker? Gandalf (if he's him), but could have liked him as a one of the Blue wizards or as a generic magic-user from the sky, Galandriel as a war trauma psycho, Numenor political deal being too time compressed to be even understandable. Three elements that could be corrected easily by... introducing a new character or place instead (a new elf-warrior-maiden consumed with grief...) It would be difficult to remake Numenor, granted.

The only counter example I think of is the Harfoot, which are a "new thing" that I didn't like, but I see that they are generally liked. What I found jarring was the discrepancy between the story they tell ("we're a closely-knit community, nobody walks alone") and the reality (You broke your leg? Then you and your family will all die in the wilderness but don't worry, we'll do an eulogy!") that makes them creepy dans dystopian. That, and the crummy songs.




(as an aside, I don't get the argument about the show looking bad... the Numenorean expeditionary force of 3 measly ships was certainly a bit underwhelming -- since sending a fleet was such a big deal, politically, I expected more than three... -- but it's really great-looking...

It's not every elements looking bad, it's specific things looking bad here and there with other things looking great, which makes the things that look bad stand out more as I understand it (most of that is second hand, except for the 3 rings of power which I've seen and thought could have looked nicer).

I think I'll get around to start watching it, I'm no where near a Tolkien scholar (I prefer FR & other D&D settings, among fantasy settings), so I won't get as upset about thinks in Rings of Power like a lot of Tolkien fans.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
It's not every elements looking bad, it's specific things looking bad here and there with other things looking great, which makes the things that look bad stand out more as I understand it (most of that is second hand, except for the 3 rings of power which I've seen and thought could have looked nicer).

I think I'll get around to start watching it, I'm no where near a Tolkien scholar (I prefer FR & other D&D settings, among fantasy settings), so I won't get as upset about thinks in Rings of Power like a lot of Tolkien fans.
Yeah, thst second hand information is blatantly incorrect. Maybe watch it before forming an opinion.
 


Mercurius

Legend
Yeah, thst second hand information is blatantly incorrect. Maybe watch it before forming an opinion.
What is blatantly incorrect? That some things look bad? I tend to agree with that - and I have watched it. Mostly it looks good, but two things in particular stood out to me:

1) The Numenorean armor. It looked like it was made out of plastic or rubber because, well, it probably was.

2) The elvish rings looked gaudy in a sort of faux riche/blingish sort of way. I don't know why they didn't just use the same rings from LotR, which were far more classy.

There were other things here and there, but those are what stood out the most. I think the overall craftsmanship that went into the weapons and armor, and other items, was inferior to the Jackson films.
 

Mercurius

Legend
As for my view of the series as a whole, as I said at one point here, my initial impression after the first two episodes was: "Not as bad as I feared, but worse than I hoped - maybe there's some potential here." After finishing the series, I find it a mix of "kinda ok, entertaining in a CWish sort of way with a few good moments and elements" and "A startlingly poorly crafted mess that makes a mockery of Tolkien's creation." In other words, that potential has dissolved like a Morgul blade, and the show is--at least in some ways--even worse than I feared.

As an adaptation of Tolkien, it is bordering on disastrous. If Peter Jackson's film were a shadow of Tolkien's books--but obviously lovingly crafted and with a clear intention to embody Tolkien's world and vision as faithfully as possible, and thus overall a mostly wonderful cinematic experience--then Rings of Power is a shadow of (a shadow of) Jackson's films, and one that really only resembles Tolkien's Middle-earth in superficial ways: basic concepts and names, but with no sense that the show-runners really "get" Tolkien. And in ways that they kind of get Tolkien, they twist and distort it to the point of parody.

Perhaps the most egregious element is the depiction of elves, which from the start came across as kind of a mixture of an idealized version of (very human) Celts and, again, a CW-caliber expression of emotional maturity and sophistication. Critics of the show like to pick on Morfydd Clark's Galadriel, and I think for good reason: She comes across as a petulant teen warrior princess with very little depth or complexity (not to mention her excessive use of bad figurative speech, which were seemingly written by high school students). I actually was quite impressed with Clark in Saint Maud, so I suspect most (though probably not all) of this is in the writing and direction.

But from the start, I didn't require it to be perfectly faithful to Tolkien's Middle-earth, though I did hope it would at least try to do homage to it, like Jackson did, when instead it borders on parody. Meaning, I would have been quite pleased if it was at least well-made fantasy. But what I find simply baffling is just how poorly it was made, in terms of cinematic story-telling, in almost every way: everything from pacing to plot to dialogue to acting to world-building to sets...It was as if it was produced by amateurs with no previous experience (oh wait, it was!). The choice of Payne and McKay for such a big budget project is just weird...I heard a rumor that JJ Abrams called in a favor for them.

So while a JJ Abrams version of Middle-earth would have butchered it enough and been a shadow of Jackson's films, it would have at least been well produced; RoP is like an adaptation of what an Abrams LotR film might have been - a derivation of a derivation, like a Youtube animation of the Cliff's Notes version of a book. Meaning, we're now at four degrees of separation from Tolkien: a shadow (RoP) of a shadow (Abrams-esque Middle-earth) of a shadow (Jackson's Middle-earth) of a shadow (Tolkien's Middle-earth).

Without going into all the gory details, one example of the poor story-telling is the pacing - how the story seemed to somehow both move too quickly and too slowly at the same time. I have no idea how they accomplished that, but it seems related to a tendency to gloss over important events and keeping them off screen, while padding the run-time with endlessly tedious dialogue and other scenes that weren't important to the story or development of the world. An example of this was Nori's excruciating extended farewell scene, which also highlighted another problem: the tendency to tell and not show; telling us how to feel and when to feel it, rather than showing us scenes that evoke feeling. Again, another classic amateurish blunder that happened again and again.

In a similar vein to the pacing is the world-building and depiction of Middle-earth as a whole: there was a feeling of cramped-ness, with no sense of the vastness of the world. Everything from the street-level scenes in Numenor which all felt claustrophobic, like they were set up in a Hollywood warehouse, to the way travel was glossed over (the infamous "from Numenor to the South-lands in a blink of an eye, oh, and with an entire cavalry crammed into a ship or two!").

But what is most striking about this overall production quality (or lack thereof), is that because it showed up everywhere, in so many ways - so many cracks revealing that the whole thing was a facade, a production - it seems clear that very little substantive thought was put into making it a believable, tightly-crafted world (e.g. Halbrand is in critical condition, so let's take him on a week-long gallup for Elvish medicine! Or, "Hi, my name is Celembrimbor and I'm thousands of years old and the greatest smith since Feanor...but I didn't even think once to make mithril into an alloy!"). Meaning, as if they either assumed the viewers would be entirely uncritical, or, more likely, it was simply a matter of incompetence on their part (or worse yet, both).

There are so many other things I could say, but that's enough baffled exasperation for now. But I tend to agree with most of what Erik Kain of Forbes.com has said, with his season review here.

p.s. Oh, and as a pre-emptive to the inevitable "Tell us how you really feel, you cretin...I totally disagree, btw" responses: I know opinions differ, and a lot of folks liked Rings of Power. I am not saying you are a bad person if you liked it. I'm just expressing that I think the show itself was really bad. Not you, you're a good person! ;)
 
Last edited:

Parmandur

Book-Friend
What is blatantly incorrect? That some things look bad? I tend to agree with that - and I have watched it. Mostly it looks good, but two things in particular stood out to me:

1) The Numenorean armor. It looked like it was made out of plastic or rubber because, well, it probably was.

2) The elvish rings looked gaudy in a sort of faux riche/blingish sort of way. I don't know why they didn't just use the same rings from LotR, which were far more classy.

There were other things here and there, but those are what stood out the most. I think the overall craftsmanship that went into the weapons and armor, and other items, was inferior to the Jackson films.
It is blatantly incorrect that the show looks cheap: it does not, it was clearly very expensive to make.

You point out two random things, but your objections are about aesthetic choice, not expense involved. The Numenorean armor is a fantastic recreation of Ancient Near East styles of leather armor, I thought, much better than the silliness of full plate armor seen on Jackson's films. But both were clearly very pricey to make, setting aside taste.
 

Remove ads

Top