D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XIV: Wizard)

[Shadowdweller00]

Looks like the great and terrible School of Necromancy is in the hotseat right now.
What's so great/terrible about it?

<stuff>

Yeah, speaking purely for myself (as I am not actually any other people ):

I like the School of Necromancy wizard just fine. Grim Harvest really isn't all THAT as far as I'm concerned: My usual strategy when playing Wizard is to try to avoid damage altogether. And with a party to cower behind...it's often pretty easy to do so. The hit point returns from it aren't usually all that great either, though of course every little bit helps. The main attraction of the subclass to me is the Undead Thralls ability. Animate Dead is actually a pretty good spell, considering that it's not a concentration effect. The damage bonuses from Undead Thralls help keep the undead minions actually somewhat-relevant when massed. And since skeletons come with ranged attacks you're not competing for space at the front with the party melee specialists. Inured to Undeath is kinda meh. Command Thralls is good, but comes pretty late in an Adventurer's career for most games.

Mostly, the subclass is functional and not broken. And absolutely a solid choice if you want to build a necromancer-type character. But there are more exciting Wizard subclasses IMO?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I'd say there's some daylight between "depends on your DM, be prepared for some negotiation" and "so heavily DM-dependent that it goes from amazing to terrible with only relatively small differences."

Necromancy, like Illusion (and to an extent Enchantment as well), always struck me as falling closer to the latter than the former.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

I'd say there's some daylight between "depends on your DM, be prepared for some negotiation" and "so heavily DM-dependent that it goes from amazing to terrible with only relatively small differences."

Necromancy, like Illusion (and to an extent Enchantment as well), always struck me as falling closer to the latter than the former.

My experience has been...sharply different. Outside of some issues with overbearing paladins in the party; or undead let out in public. Curious to specifics you've had issues with or witnessed other people having issues with? (Regarding Necromancy, specifically)

 

[Vaalingrade]

Every guard suddenly becomes an expert in how every street is laid out and willing to investigate any object they see the second the players cast an illusion.

And every person you charm, who should 'treat you as a friend', either is a total pushover to their friends, or hates them.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

My experience has been...sharply different. Outside of some issues with overbearing paladins in the party; or undead let out in public. Curious to specifics you've had issues with or witnessed other people having issues with? (Regarding Necromancy, specifically)

I was speaking more in a holistic sense, not specifically this one (I haven't actually played with any Wizards, I don't think?) Necromancy attracts the bad kind of attention from DMs, players, and PCs alike, and something specifically predicated on summoning and maintaining a coterie of extra creatures is...well. It very easily leads to frustration from other players even (and perhaps especially!) when you're genuinely focused on helping. I love me the Summoner archetype, but I recognize that "carry around 3-6 extra bodies" tends to rankle folks who want to be getting in on the action themselves. (Further, the whole "Command Undead only really pays off when there are lots of undead to command" thing doesn't help. That's very, very hard to balance in a way that doesn't make it end up being overpowered, pointless, or oscillating between the two.)

 

[Aldarc]

The vision for the D&D Necromancer needs an utter rework IMHO. I don't think that it really does a good job of representing what many new players IME expect out of a Necromancer, which has been influenced by Necromancers in video games (e.g., Diablo 2-3, Guild Wars 1-2, Elder Scrolls Online, etc.). The skeleten horde necro is great for NPCs but a trainwreck for everyone at the table when it's a PC.

A big part of the issue is that Animate Dead and Create Undead spells aren't really all that fun. Any gratification that may come from having an army of undead is crushed beneath the weight of micro-managing and balancing a checkbook of undead minions.

One pet? Fine. But a lot of the summons and necromancer abilities should be more like temporary spell effects: e.g., "you summon skeletal hands from the ground that make difficult terrain for X rounds..." or "you explode the corpse and deal X damage to nearby foes..."

Plus, the Necro toolkit seems split between the Cleric and Wizard.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I don't know. When 5e wizards aren't asked to give anything up to be a "specialist wizard" - e.g., spells of other traditions, etc. - are there wizards that aren't generalist wizards?

I certainly understand your point, but since all of their class features revolve around their school, I just can't consider them "generalists" in that sense.

I don't think specialization needs to mean that a wizard is deficient in other areas. I feel that's kind of a balancing mechanic held over from 2e.

If someone specializes in one aspect of something, often that is at the sacrifice of other areas (not always, however).

For example, it has always bothered me the Athletics includes so many areas. It is extremely unlikely that someone would equally excel at climbing, jumping, lifting, swimming, etc. While a person would be good at all of these, if they excel at one they most often are not as good at the others.

 

[CleverNickName]

"You call yourself a wizard? You don't even own a suit of armor. And who taught you how to use a sword? Seriously your swordplay is embarrassing, you're not even holding it right!"

"I think you're confused about what a 'wizard' is supposed to be."

"Whatever, Merlin. A good wizard should be able to cast a spell that makes him good at jousting, fencing, and warfare."

"That's not magic, that's training."

 

[DND_Reborn]

"You call yourself a wizard? You don't even own a suit of armor. And who taught you how to use a sword? Seriously your swordplay is embarrassing, you're not even holding it right!"

Huh? I thought you held it by the pointy-end???
Then you swing it over head to get more power and slice your foes up to the hilt. That is what I was TOLD!

 

[CleverNickName]

"Sword-magic? Yeah, we had that in the army. It's called 'basic training' and we hated every minute of it."