D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XIV: Wizard)

[EzekielRaiden]

Agreed. Scribes isn't a generalist wizard either IMO. It is a sad attempt if that was its goal.

So...what is it, then? Because it's literally the school you take if you want to focus on benefiting from having a huge library of spells to cast, since you can mix together useful properties of spells you know, but only within spells of the same spell level. You call it a "sad attempt" but it's actually quite strong (and, more importantly, quite Wizardly) in any game where the Wizard is allowed to acquire or research spells beyond the baseline allotment. (Moved from the survivor thread.)

 

[DND_Reborn]

Maybe not, but the result IME is that a lot of wizards end up taking the same spells over and over again regardless of subclass, so a lot of wizards end up looking alike in terms of spell selection. I used to feel the same way as you, but I kinda would almost welcome it, if only, for more variability between wizards that I see. But maybe One D&D will give wizards a narrower range of Arcane spells but then providing greater access to school traditions with their choice of subclass.

Yep. 90% of the spells taken IME are always the same, regardless of whose playing the Wizard. You could get rid of 50% of the spells, and few players, if any, would really suffer IMO.

If the specialist traditions had two or three schools they could not learn from, it would be better.

 

[Aldarc]

Moving my post from the other thread to here.

I don't think specialization needs to mean that a wizard is deficient in other areas. I feel that's kind of a balancing mechanic held over from 2e.

Maybe not, but the result IME is that a lot of wizards end up taking the same spells over and over again regardless of subclass, so a lot of wizards end up looking alike in terms of spell selection. I used to feel the same way as you, but I kinda would almost welcome it, if only, for more variability between wizards that I see. But maybe One D&D will give wizards a narrower range of Arcane spells but then providing greater access to school traditions with their choice of subclass.

 

[ezo]

So...what is it, then? Because it's literally the school you take if you want to focus on benefiting from having a huge library of spells to cast, since you can mix together useful properties of spells you know, but only within spells of the same spell level. You call it a "sad attempt" but it's actually quite strong (and, more importantly, quite Wizardly) in any game where the Wizard is allowed to acquire or research spells beyond the baseline allotment. (Moved from the survivor thread.)

You get a magic spell book and a magic quill. Big whoop.

Might feel "wizardly" to you but I think they ONLY thing they got right really was allowing a spellbook to be a spellcasting focus.

Maybe not, but the result IME is that a lot of wizards end up taking the same spells over and over again regardless of subclass, so a lot of wizards end up looking alike in terms of spell selection. I used to feel the same way as you, but I kinda would almost welcome it, if only, for more variability between wizards that I see. But maybe One D&D will give wizards a narrower range of Arcane spells but then providing greater access to school traditions with their choice of subclass.

Yep. 90% of the spells taken IME are always the same, regardless of whose playing the Wizard. You could get rid of 50% of the spells, and few players, if any, would really suffer IMO.

If the specialist traditions had two or three schools they could not learn from, it would be better.

I would be interesting to see how often some spells are not taken...

 

[Tonguez]

Yep. 90% of the spells taken IME are always the same, regardless of whose playing the Wizard. You could get rid of 50% of the spells, and few players, if any, would really suffer IMO.

If the specialist traditions had two or three schools they could not learn from, it would be better.

Yeah when playing a wizard I self impose a limit of 3 schools to draw from, it makes it more fun to be creative with a limited pool imho.
Wizard should have a small set of core General spells and then choose school specialties, with Scribes being able to learn individual spells from any school

 

[EzekielRaiden]

You get a magic spell book and a magic quill. Big whoop.

...and the ability to bend the damage type of any spell you cast, so long as you have another spell which merely references different damage type.

It doesn't have to deal that damage. The only requirement is that the damage type "appears" in the spell. So if you have a 3rd level spell in your spellbook that does radiant damage (e.g. spirit shroud) or in any other way references the radiant damage type, then you can choose to have your fireball deal radiant damage. For example, dimension door refers to force damage because that's the type of damage you, personally, take if you try to teleport to an occupied space. This lets you cast fireball as a force spell if you want.

And then, of course, one ritual a day, you can cast at the normal (non-ritual) casting time, not the 10-minute casting time it normally requires. A small benefit, perhaps, but a benefit nonetheless, and one very appropriate to someone who doesn't focus on a single school of magic (since rituals are all over the place in terms of schools.)

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yeah when playing a wizard I self impose a limit of 3 schools to draw from, it makes it more fun to be creative with a limited pool imho.
Wizard should have a small set of core General spells and then choose school specialties, with Scribes being able to learn individual spells from any school

I like the idea, but I wouldn't give that ability to Scribes, I would create an actually generalist wizard.

I mean, honestly, how is Scribes any more wizardly than Bladesinger or War Magic? They all get access to all wizard spells. Many of the Scribe features feel like Sorcerer-wanna-bees and conjuration "tricks".

IMO this is a problem with 5E. You have Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards (not to mention Bards even) competing for the same work space.

FWIW, in our Mod the school traditions are limited in spell access, but have a feature which allows them to learn school spells from other spell lists! It is pretty cool, really.

 

[ezo]

...and the ability to bend the damage type of any spell you cast, so long as you have another spell which merely references different damage type.

It doesn't have to deal that damage. The only requirement is that the damage type "appears" in the spell. So if you have a 3rd level spell in your spellbook that does radiant damage (e.g. spirit shroud) or in any other way references the radiant damage type, then you can choose to have your fireball deal radiant damage. For example, dimension door refers to force damage because that's the type of damage you, personally, take if you try to teleport to an occupied space. This lets you cast fireball as a force spell if you want.

Whoopie! Yeah! Big deal. It is almost like a metamagic feature....

And then, of course, one ritual a day, you can cast at the normal (non-ritual) casting time, not the 10-minute casting time it normally requires. A small benefit, perhaps, but a benefit nonetheless, and one very appropriate to someone who doesn't focus on a single school of magic (since rituals are all over the place in terms of schools.)

Again, woo-hoo! How often is that really be useful? Seriously.

There are what-- 18-- 20-- rituals? Which ones of those actually need to be cast as an action??

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, speaking purely for myself (as I am not actually any other people ):

I like the School of Necromancy wizard just fine. Grim Harvest really isn't all THAT as far as I'm concerned: My usual strategy when playing Wizard is to try to avoid damage altogether. And with a party to cower behind...it's often pretty easy to do so. The hit point returns from it aren't usually all that great either, though of course every little bit helps. The main attraction of the subclass to me is the Undead Thralls ability. Animate Dead is actually a pretty good spell, considering that it's not a concentration effect. The damage bonuses from Undead Thralls help keep the undead minions actually somewhat-relevant when massed. And since skeletons come with ranged attacks you're not competing for space at the front with the party melee specialists. Inured to Undeath is kinda meh. Command Thralls is good, but comes pretty late in an Adventurer's career for most games.

Mostly, the subclass is functional and not broken. And absolutely a solid choice if you want to build a necromancer-type character. But there are more exciting Wizard subclasses IMO?

IMO, swap Grine Havest and Thralls, and change GH to add “if you would gain hp beyond your maximum, you instead gain THP” and you have a really excellent necro.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Whoopie! Yeah! Big deal. It is almost like a metamagic feature....

Except that it doesn't cost anything. You can do this all day, with every spell you cast, if you have another spell which references an interesting damage type.

Again, woo-hoo! How often is that really be useful? Seriously.

Your sarcasm isn't productive. And I actually think this could be very useful now and then. Casting detect magic right away, as opposed to in 10 minutes, could completely change a murder mystery or diplomatic talk. Feign death could be useful in a duplicity kind of way. Effectively instant water breathing would be very useful in an aquatic campaign. Etc. Is it contextual? Sure. Doesn't mean it's useless.