Hasbro Double Downgraded by Bank of America.

[Art Waring]

Haven't they got heaps of unsold stock or something?

They have massive warehouses full of countless palettes of sealed product, yet they still print more. Not to mention plenty of LGS' and distributors are also stuck with sealed product that they can't sell, because amazon dumps undercut their entire business model.

What they couldn't sell, they are now repacking into "mystery" boxes to resell at inflated prices, while including stuff that nobody wanted in the first place.

The ccg industry needs to look to other business models to be sustainable (not that they have shown any signs of desiring sustainability over short term profit). Atm, they are happy printing mtg into oblivion because shareholders don't care about the longevity of the brand.

Look at LCG's (living card games) like Dominion, you get the entire set of cards all in one box for $30-40, and everyone uses cards from the box, so no can "pay to win" by having better cards than their competitors. Everyone is on equal terms. Yes it isn't "collectible" but it sure as hell is playable.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Sorry, maybe I have read too many conspirancy theories to give a sensible answer, but after some things happened, it sounds as if anybody didn't want Hasbro became too important, because this is not enoughly controlled by them.

This sounds as an infiltrator sabotaging to drop the value of the company, and then this would cheaper to be aquired by a bigger fish. Why? Because the potential value of the brands and franchises. If Hasbro played well its cards this could become an entertaiment empire as Disney.

 

[trappedslider]

The ccg industry needs to look to other business models to be sustainable (not that they have shown any signs of desiring sustainability over short term profit). Atm, they are happy printing mtg into oblivion because shareholders don't care about the longevity of the brand.

Pokemon is doing great, Disney is getting around to launching their own ccg, Yu-Gi-Oh is picking steam again. The CCG industry is more than MTG. The CCG indsutry as a whole is doing fine.

 

[Scribe]

The model for MTG worked for a very very long time. Can they close Pandora's box now? I dont know. If they COULD would that get us back in a few years to normality?

I think possibly, with some aggressive banning of some cards that still shouldnt exist.

 

[Art Waring]

Pokemon is doing great, Disney is getting around to launching their own ccg, Yu-Gi-Oh is picking steam again. The CCG industry is more than MTG. The CCG as a whole is doing fine.

Well it depends on who you ask I guess. Yes, most ccg's appear to be doing fine, but every collectible market is a bubble waiting to pop, similar to the crash of baseball cards or the collapse of comics in the 90s.

History bears the lesson that most things labeled "collectable" lose value over time once the bubble bursts. Beanie Babies, baseball cards, Hummel figurines (look these up, once they cost a fortune, now you cant sell them anywhere), Morgan Dollars (now sold for pennies on the dollar and worth more melted down), Franklin mint collectibles, the list goes on and on...

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

But WotC has got the adventage of the licenced franchises. This has been the goal with the Magic: Beyond Universe, and my opinion is here the idea is good because is a merchandising product could be bought by collectors besides the ordinary players.

And I guess the main target is the online videogame market. Then here the physical cards would be more for collector than hardcore players.

Other point is the new lines being created aren't only for the card game, but also for other type of products later. Hasbro is betting for the creation of multimedia franchises.

And even when other companies making money with the CCG Magic is the master of the market, among other reasons players would rather spend money in games played by the most, because it is easier other players to play with.

---

Let's remember we are near of the end of year, Christmas, when most of toys are sold for these days.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Not just gas, rocket fuel then salting the earth where the market once stood.

This is why I think WotC is opening themselves up to legal action, they sold a ton of Dominaria United and other sets to distrubutors with the understsnding that the distrubuters then sell to LGSs who sell to regular folks, then a couple of months later they completely under cut the price to below distrubuter costs. No way that can be legal.

I think you’re confusing moral with legal. Unless there is a specific clause in a contract, I don’t see how a company choosing to sell its goods is illegal. Amazon and Walmart have been doing it (undercutting) for decades.

 

[trappedslider]

Well it depends on who you ask I guess. Yes, most ccg's appear to be doing fine, but every collectible market is a bubble waiting to pop, similar to the crash of baseball cards or the collapse of comics in the 90s.

History bears the lesson that most things labeled "collectable" lose value over time once the bubble bursts. Beanie Babies, baseball cards, Hummel figurines (look these up, once they cost a fortune, now you cant sell them anywhere), Morgan Dollars (now sold for pennies on the dollar and worth more melted down), Franklin mint collectibles, the list goes on and on...

There's a considerable difference (IMO) between those other collectibles and CCGs. The GAME aspect. Also, that comparison gets made every time there's a downturn in sales with MTG that ignores the rest of the CCG market.

Collectible Card Game Market Business Growth 2022, Industry Share, Global Size, Demand Analysis, Emerging Trends, Key Players and Regional Forecast to 2027

Oct 07, 2022 (The Expresswire) -- "Final Report will add the analysis of the impact of COVID-19 on this industry." The Global Collectible Card Game Market...

www.marketwatch.com

I may be reading too much in your post but to me, it seems that you have a dislike towards CCGs.

 

[Art Waring]

I may be reading too much in your post but to me, it seems that you have a dislike towards CCGs.

On the contrary, I have extensively played almost every big tent ccg except pokemon (mtg, st, sw, VtM, Netrunner, Battletech, Jih, AvP, Term, ME-ICE, L5r), countless independent ccg's, helped playtest a few, and even designed a few card games of my own.

What I dislike is the idea that during a recession and an economic downturn, we are presented with the most expensive ccg product to date in mtg's history, M30 at $1100 for 60 randomized proxy cards after tax. Essentially saying, don't bother showing up unless you are a whale with bags of disposable cash.

The cost in dollars ($1100 after tax) equates to over $10,000 Brazilian currency, a price no one can reasonably afford (the cost is equivalent to buying a car in that region of the world). Add insult to injury, the cards are not tournament legal, and their price is being speculated on based on previous tournament legal prints from 30 years ago.

The best comparable set is collectors edition which was released in 1993 for $50 retail, and included every card in the alpha/ beta set in one box including power 9. Todays M30 set is essentially a reprint of the collectors edition, at a price of over a grand for 60 random cards. An entire draft box would go for over $10,000, and you likely wont get every card due to the new rarity system. That is a pretty steep difference in price.

 

[trappedslider]

On the contrary, I have extensively played almost every big tent ccg except pokemon (mtg, st, sw, VtM, Netrunner, Battletech, Jih, AvP, Term, ME-ICE, L5r), countless independent ccg's, helped playtest a few, and even designed a few card games of my own.

What I dislike is the idea that during a recession and an economic downturn, we are presented with the most expensive ccg product to date in mtg's history, M30 at $1100 for 60 randomized proxy cards after tax. Essentially saying, don't bother showing up unless you are a whale with bags of disposable cash.

The cost in dollars ($1100 after tax) equates to over $10,000 Brazilian currency, a price no one can reasonably afford (the cost is equivalent to buying a car in that region of the world). Add insult to injury, the cards are not tournament legal, and their price is being speculated on based on previous tournament legal prints from 30 years ago.

The best comparable set is collectors edition which was released in 1993 for $50 retail, and included every card in the alpha/ beta set in one box including power 9. Todays M30 set is essentially a reprint of the collectors edition, at a price of over a grand for 60 random cards. An entire draft box would go for over $10,000, and you likely wont get every card due to the new rarity system. That is a pretty steep difference in price.

Your dislike doesn't mean that you should dismiss the global CCG industry which seems to be chugging along quite nicely.