D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[Greg Benage]

Or a couple of town bowyers who have time to make them for free from the plentiful wood to be found.

Oh boy, I hope the mean old dragon doesn't attack the lumberjacks while they're harvesting the wood for ~2,400 longbows!

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Is it a given that an army would stand and fight a fire breathing beast? Don’t people get scared?

If it’s a smart dragon would it perhaps hear about a town raising a militia and equipping them? Knowing this might it not start setting fires and wearing the population down over some time? Would it wait for a large formation of bowmen to assemble on a plain?

Groups of men have broken due to cannonballs bouncing toward their lines…

Peasants could also kill a 20th level wizard that lays down and exposes her neck too.

 

[overgeeked]

It's a problem because it shouldn't be possible. These are ancient dragons. It should take a city to have a chance. Anything smaller than a city should just kiss itself goodbye. 5e changed that. Accuracy was bounded too much.

Ancient red dragon. AC 22. HP 546. Peasant with a longbow has a +0 to-hit, so needs a natural 20, which crits and deals double damage. Using the average, doubled, is 9 damage. For every 20 peasants one will hit and deal 9 damage. So it would take 61 hits to kill the dragon which would take 1220 shots to accomplish. Which means one round of attacks from 1220 peasants, two rounds of attacks from 660 peasants, three rounds of attacks from 440 peasants, etc. According to the DMG, a village is up to 1000 people. So yeah, a village of armed peasants can literally shoot an ancient red dragon out of the sky in about two rounds. That matches everyone’s fantasy, right?

 

[Faolyn]

I feel bad for these warlocks who entered such bad deals. My infernal warlock, Johnny the folk-hero, won his warlock powers from a fiend in a fiddle playing contest. The fiend lost and had no choice but to give Johnny a sliver of power.

I've a friend who wants to do that, only it would be a celestial pact. So he could say he made a deal with the deva.

 

[overgeeked]

Peasants could also kill a 20th level wizard that lays down and exposes her neck too.

Assume max HP for a wizard, 6 every level +5 CON mod, gives you 220 HP. The same peasants shooting the dragon out of the sky would have less than 1/2 the trouble with a wizard. Only 25 hits at 9 damage apiece. That’s only 500 shots. A full village could do it in less than a round.

 

[Cadence]

Ancient red dragon. AC 22. HP 546. Peasant with a longbow has a +0 to-hit, so needs a natural 20, which crits and deals double damage. Using the average, doubled, is 9 damage. For every 20 peasants one will hit and deal 9 damage. So it would take 61 hits to kill the dragon which would take 1220 shots to accomplish. Which means one round of attacks from 1220 peasants, two rounds of attacks from 660 peasants, three rounds of attacks from 440 peasants, etc. According to the DMG, a village is up to 1000 people. So yeah, a village of armed peasants can literally shoot an ancient red dragon out of the sky in about two rounds. That matches everyone’s fantasy, right?

Are they all packed together at short range? Or are they spread out with most taking disadvantage?

If they're guarding the village can it be picking up cows from the pasture to drop in them from a range of 601? Or if they're guarding the field can it be picking up rooftops to drop on them?

 

[overgeeked]

 

[overgeeked]

Are they all packed together at short range? Or are they spread out with most taking disadvantage?

If they're guarding the village can it be picking up cows from the pasture to drop in them from a range of 601? Or if they're guarding the field can it be picking up rooftops to drop on them?

Fetchez la vache!

You do realize the longbow has a longer short range than anything the dragon can do, right? Frightful Presence is 120ft, darkvision is 120ft, breath is 90ft, fly speed is 80ft, wing attack is 15ft, everything else is thrown or melee. To do anything to the villagers it would have to be within their short range. Ready action, fire when within range. Dead dragon.

 

[Maxperson]

Also... couldn't the GM just decide "the outcome is not in doubt" and declare that the dragon has annihilated the commoners?

I agree, it is totally silly.

By the rules the outcome is in doubt, though. Enough commoners will hit X number of times a round. Sure the DM can homebrew the odds away, but then he's creating inconsistencies in the fiction unless he just declares that the PCs lose when they need 20's to hit.

 

[Cadence]

Fetchez la vache!

You do realize the longbow has a longer short range than anything the dragon can do, right? Frightful Presence is 120ft, darkvision is 120ft, breath is 90ft, fly speed is 80ft, wing attack is 15ft, everything else is thrown or melee. To do anything to the villagers it would have to be within their short range. Ready action, fire when within range. Dead dragon.

The dragon bought a bunch of arrows from the last village and drops them from just out of the range of those firing from the ground? (How many arrows can a dragon carry?)