D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[overgeeked]

The dragon bought a bunch of arrows from the last village and drops them from just out of the range of those firing from the ground? (How many arrows can a dragon carry?)

The average cow weighs 1000 lbs. How much force will it strike the ground with when dropped from exactly 601 feet? How many targets would the average cow hit, if whole, when dropped from exactly 601 feet? Cows are large creatures. So that’s a 10x10 square. DEX save for half-a-cow’s worth of damage. What’s the DC to dodge a falling cow? What’s the terminal velocity of a cow?

 

[Maxperson]

Oh boy, I hope the mean old dragon doesn't attack the lumberjacks while they're harvesting the wood for ~2,400 longbows!

Dragon attacks are thankfully very, very rare. They'd have several years or decades to make those, and have been. I'd bet many families have some bows for hunting.

 

[Cadence]

The average cow weighs 1000 lbs. How much force will it strike the ground with when dropped from exactly 601 feet? How many targets would the average cow hit, if whole, when dropped from exactly 601 feet? Cows are large creatures. So that’s a 10x10 square. DEX save for half-a-cow’s worth of damage. What’s the DC to dodge a falling cow? What’s the terminal velocity of a cow?

I'm guessing half a cow is lethal to a commoner. And that eventually their dodge gets worse when all of their fields are burned and the cows are splatted and they eat through their stores.

But anyway, this one was about arrows.

 

[hawkeyefan]

By the rules the outcome is in doubt, though. Enough commoners will hit X number of times a round. Sure the DM can homebrew the odds away, but then he's creating inconsistencies in the fiction unless he just declares that the PCs lose when they need 20's to hit.

By what rules? Aren't you always quoting how the rules aren't in charge, the DM is? Here's a place for a DM to make a decision. He decides that the villagers can't do it. No one's going to roll this out... no stats need to be involved.

I mean, we could also just say "oh these commoners don't use the standard commoner stat block... they're all -76 to hit and have a trait that makes them flee at the merest sight of a dragon."

You yourself said this shouldn't happen. I strongly doubt that this has ever happened in anyone's game, where they rolled out an entire town's worth of attacks against a dragon. So it's a non-issue.

It never happens, we don't need to be scared of it.

 

[Maxperson]

Ancient red dragon. AC 22. HP 546. Peasant with a longbow has a +0 to-hit, so needs a natural 20, which crits and deals double damage. Using the average, doubled, is 9 damage. For every 20 peasants one will hit and deal 9 damage. So it would take 61 hits to kill the dragon which would take 1220 shots to accomplish. Which means one round of attacks from 1220 peasants, two rounds of attacks from 660 peasants, three rounds of attacks from 440 peasants, etc. According to the DMG, a village is up to 1000 people. So yeah, a village of armed peasants can literally shoot an ancient red dragon out of the sky in about two rounds. That matches everyone’s fantasy, right?

It takes several rounds because of dragon fear and save recovery, but it still eventually happens.

 

[payn]

By what rules? Aren't you always quoting how the rules aren't in charge, the DM is? Here's a place for a DM to make a decision. He decides that the villagers can't do it. No one's going to roll this out... no stats need to be involved.

I mean, we could also just say "oh these commoners don't use the standard commoner stat block... they're all -76 to hit and have a trait that makes them flee at the merest sight of a dragon."

You yourself said this shouldn't happen. I strongly doubt that this has ever happened in anyone's game, where they rolled out an entire town's worth of attacks against a dragon. So it's a non-issue.

It never happens, we don't need to be scared of it.

I think the complaint is that RAW its even possible to happen.

 

[Faolyn]

Fetchez la vache!

You do realize the longbow has a longer short range than anything the dragon can do, right? Frightful Presence is 120ft, darkvision is 120ft, breath is 90ft, fly speed is 80ft, wing attack is 15ft, everything else is thrown or melee. To do anything to the villagers it would have to be within their short range. Ready action, fire when within range. Dead dragon.

Well, assuming commoner... +2 to hit versus AC of 17 or higher... most of those arrows are going to bounce.

 

[Faolyn]

What’s the terminal velocity of a cow?

http://www.obsidianfields.com/lj/fallingcow.pdf

"the terminal velocity is calculated at approximately 122.0 meters per second or about 273 miles per hour."

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I've actually ran something similar to this with a discord bot a few days ago, normal goblins vs red dragons.

To kill an young red in 1 turn, it took 100 Goblins. 150 for an Adult, and 550 for an Ancient. Although the goblins statblock at least has bow proficiency and ok dex, so they're a bit ahead of the commoners.

Either way, 5e monsters can't really survive an assault from hundreds or thousands of weak ranged enemies, unless they're outright immune to the damage.

 

[Maxperson]

By what rules? Aren't you always quoting how the rules aren't in charge, the DM is? Here's a place for a DM to make a decision. He decides that the villagers can't do it. No one's going to roll this out... no stats need to be involved.

And I agreed that the DM could change it, but he'd have to be consistent and rule the same way with the PCs. It would suck for a group to find they need 20's to hit and the DM just says, "You lose. Hand over your sheets."