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5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

Cleon

Legend
Sound approach, based on 1E stats rather than my gut, which is always good. Glad, though that (at least her), my gut ended up around the same number of hp proposed by you.:)

I agree that that 75 hp and CON+2 would not fly, for that would give it HD on par with a hill giant, which seems too much.
I also wouldn't much favor giving it CON+4 on par with a hill giant and I think 7 HD on par with an ogre doesn't do it.

So I was going to go for 8d10 and CON 17 (+3) but now there's also the possibility of giving it more HD than a troll with the 76 hp and CON+3 option, which may not be such a bad thing because of giantish heritage (?).

Well shall we make it Hit Points 76 (9d10 + 27) and Speed 30 ft. then?

re Speed: Cool. Didn't know 5E 30 was 2E MV12.

It's pretty obvious from how many unarmored humanoids are Speed 30 ft. in 5E.
 

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Cleon

Legend
P.S.: WTL is it with me not having bright reds and blues in my color palette?

That's 'cause they're not in the drop down colour palette.

To get a proper bright red you need to use COLOR=red or COLOR=rgb(255,0,0) in the BB code, while bright blue is COLOR=blue or COLOR=rgb(0,0,255).
 


Cleon

Legend
So that's.

STR​
DEX​
CON​
INT​
WIS​
CHA​
20? (+5)​
7? (–2)​
17? (+3)​
9-10 (+0 or –1)​
9? (–1)​
5? (–3)​

Okay, going through them in order.

Strength 20. Hmm, my gut tells me STR 18 or 19 (+4) would be better. That'd give it a +6 to hit, one less than the +7 of a 5E Troll, since in AD&D a normal Troll has THAC0 13, a step better than the THAC0 15 the Cyclops would have in those rules.

Also, it'll have Multiattack with one bite and one or two claws, and each of those attacks will get its Strength bonus on the damage. Three sets of +5 will makes its Damage-Per-Round three points higher than three sets of +4.

Dexterity 7. Seems too low. They don't need to be as clumsy like an ogre, they might be as agile as a troll (DEX 13 in 5E). The one eye probably makes it hard for them to hit thinks, but its eyesight is probably at least as keen as a human's (it's a LOT bigger than a human eyeball, so may be keener), and it could have as good a range of field depending on its optics. It's the depth perception that's poor, at least that's the only penalty mentioned in the original text.

Plus, wouldn't a Fey tend to be more agile than a clumsy ogre, not less?

I'd go for something in the (–1) to (+2) range, so anywhere from an Ogre's 8 to a Bugbear or Stone Giant's 14. Would prefer 12-13 (+1) to help distinguish it from a bog standard giant.

Constitution 17. I'm OK with that and 8 HD or 9 HD, or CON 15 and 9 HD or 10 HD. My favourite at the moment is CON 17 and 9 Hit Dice, but I'm not that attached to the idea.

Let's go for your suggested CON 17 and 8 Hit Dice for now, but we might need to tweak it later to achieve a particular Challenge Rating. We won't know until we sort out the Actions.

Intelligence 9 or 10. Either is fine, but we have to pick one!

Wisdom 9. Works for me.

While its ability so see through Illusions might suggest it's highly perceptive, that's more likely to be a special trait. If it is good at noticing things due to its oversized eye, that can be achieved with skill proficiency in Perception (or even double proficiency), although keen eyesight like a Giant Eagle or Blood Hawk might be more appropriate. Or give them both Skill in Perception and Keen Sight?

Charisma 5. I'd argue that's too low for two reasons:

First, they frequently control groups of humanoids (goblins, orcs, et cetera) which would be trickier if they have pathetic Charisma.

Secondly, their Hypnotic Gaze would have a Charisma-based saving throw if we use the default ability for gaze attacks. The next most likely ability is Wisdom, which I'd be OK with but that'd just mean I'd want to increase its WIS score instead.

Just cause it's a horrible monster doesn't mean it has to have a low Charisma. If it's good at terrifying creatures into doing its bidding that implies it has a high Charisma, it's just a nasty one!

So, putting the above together my counter proposal is:

STR​
DEX​
CON​
INT​
WIS​
CHA​
18 (+4)​
13 (+1)​
17 (+3)​
10 (+0)​
9 (–1)​
14 (+2)​

A Charisma of 14 would make its Hypnotic Gaze DC 12. Wouldn't go any lower than that.
 

ilgatto

How inconvenient
So that's.

STR​
DEX​
CON​
INT​
WIS​
CHA​
20? (+5)​
7? (–2)​
17? (+3)​
9-10 (+0 or –1)​
9? (–1)​
5? (–3)​

Okay, going through them in order.

Strength 20. Hmm, my gut tells me STR 18 or 19 (+4) would be better. That'd give it a +6 to hit, one less than the +7 of a 5E Troll, since in AD&D a normal Troll has THAC0 13, a step better than the THAC0 15 the Cyclops would have in those rules.
So STR (+4) but +6 to hit is explained by the dreaded Proficiency Bonus?

But: Less or as strong as an ogre? Hmm. I'd still say they'd be stronger than an ogre because of giant connection.

Also, it'll have Multiattack with one bite and one or two claws, and each of those attacks will get its Strength bonus on the damage. Three sets of +5 will makes its Damage-Per-Round three points higher than three sets of +4.

Dexterity 7. Seems too low. They don't need to be as clumsy like an ogre, they might be as agile as a troll (DEX 13 in 5E). The one eye probably makes it hard for them to hit thinks, but its eyesight is probably at least as keen as a human's (it's a LOT bigger than a human eyeball, so may be keener), and it could have as good a range of field depending on its optics. It's the depth perception that's poor, at least that's the only penalty mentioned in the original text.
Good point.
Plus, wouldn't a Fey tend to be more agile than a clumsy ogre, not less?
Perhaps. Although I'd not classify ogres as being particularly clumsy but that's probably a matter of opinion.
I'd go for something in the (–1) to (+2) range, so anywhere from an Ogre's 8 to a Bugbear or Stone Giant's 14. Would prefer 12-13 (+1) to help distinguish it from a bog standard giant.
Bugbear is a good analogy, so 12-13 is probably OK also in light of the above.
Constitution 17. I'm OK with that and 8 HD or 9 HD, or CON 15 and 9 HD or 10 HD. My favourite at the moment is CON 17 and 9 Hit Dice, but I'm not that attached to the idea.

Let's go for your suggested CON 17 and 8 Hit Dice for now, but we might need to tweak it later to achieve a particular Challenge Rating. We won't know until we sort out the Actions.

Intelligence 9 or 10. Either is fine, but we have to pick one!

Wisdom 9. Works for me.

While its ability so see through Illusions might suggest it's highly perceptive, that's more likely to be a special trait. If it is good at noticing things due to its oversized eye, that can be achieved with skill proficiency in Perception (or even double proficiency), although keen eyesight like a Giant Eagle or Blood Hawk might be more appropriate. Or give them both Skill in Perception and Keen Sight?
Hmm, doesn't the original text suggest that their resistance to illusions has got more to do with the fact that they can't see the 3-D effects of illusions?

"The cyclops’ eye handicaps it in combat so that it strikes at –1. It similarly hurls missiles at –2 but it gains +2 on saves vs illusory magic."

In my mind, this says that it is handicapped because of its single eye (only!) but that it also has the advantage of being able so see through illusions (edit:) because of it.

As always, I do tend to stick to what (I believe) is said in the original.
Charisma 5. I'd argue that's too low for two reasons:

First, they frequently control groups of humanoids (goblins, orcs, et cetera) which would be trickier if they have pathetic Charisma.

Secondly, their Hypnotic Gaze would have a Charisma-based saving throw if we use the default ability for gaze attacks. The next most likely ability is Wisdom, which I'd be OK with but that'd just mean I'd want to increase its WIS score instead.

Just cause it's a horrible monster doesn't mean it has to have a low Charisma. If it's good at terrifying creatures into doing its bidding that implies it has a high Charisma, it's just a nasty one!
Good point on leading creatures. I guess I 2E-explained that away by thinking they'd rule through brute force but I guess that's also an aspect of 5E CHA.
 
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ilgatto

How inconvenient
That's more languages than most 5E monsters have and doesn't include Common or Giant, so there's no way for it to speak to an Ogre (the text says "Cyclops speak their own language as well as that of orcs, gnolls, swarts, goblins, hobgoblin and ogre.").

Let's see, in Fifth Edition Orcs speak Common & Orc; Gnolls speak Gnoll; Svarts don't exist officially AFAIK*; Goblins and Hobgoblins speak Common & Goblin (as do bugbears); Ogres speak Common & Giant.
* For what it's worth, an AD&D Svart/Xvart speaks Goblin, Kobold & Xvart; in 3E they speak Goblin and occasionally Draconic (as Kobolds speak Draconic), and in 4E they are mutant gnomes called Xivorts who speak Common & Elven.

So if a Cyclops spoke Common and Gnoll, it would be able to communicate with every creature on that list that is in the 5E Monster Manual.

That said, I don't much care for the idea of them speaking Common as it takes some of the mystique away from them. A Cyclops mightfeel more monstrous if it only speaks "monster".

Wouldn't bother giving them their own language though. There are plenty of creatures in 5E that don't have unique languages, which were two a penny in AD&D.

Perhaps "Cyclops" is just a dialect of Giant or a pidgin of the languages the Cyclops speaks?

I'm tempted to drop one of the listed monster languages, either Gnoll or Orc, since four is a LOT for a 5E monster. Few of the creatures in the Monster Manual have more than two.

So I'm thinking maybe have them speak Giant, Goblin and Orc or perhaps Giant, Goblin and Gnoll?
OK I missed the Ogre. Didn't intend to.
No Cyclops coz this is a pidgin of Giant is an excellent idea.
Agreed on no Common for reasons you stated.
I'd favor GG&O rather than GG&G coz I actually don't really see them lead gnolls as much as orcs and goblins, especially now that they're Fey.
However, then they wouldn't be able to speak to gnolls, so that may be a problem.

Guess it's gonna have to be GG&G although lots of cringing here.
 


ilgatto

How inconvenient
That's 'cause they're not in the drop down colour palette.

To get a proper bright red you need to use COLOR=red or COLOR=rgb(255,0,0) in the BB code, while bright blue is COLOR=blue or COLOR=rgb(0,0,255).
So do I have to do that every time[/COLOR=red] or can I just add them to the palette?[/COLOR=blue]

Edit: Well, that didn't work!:ROFLMAO:
 


ilgatto

How inconvenient
So, putting the above together my counter proposal is:

STR​
DEX​
CON​
INT​
WIS​
CHA​
18 (+4)​
13 (+1)​
17 (+3)​
10 (+0)​
9 (–1)​
14 (+2)​

A Charisma of 14 would make its Hypnotic Gaze DC 12. Wouldn't go any lower than that.
Still not in favor of STR 18 for reasons explained upthread. Also, I'd rather like them to be quite strong if only to rudely awaken any PCs thinking "oh, dear, another humanoid..." from their misplaced complacency.
Here's to hoping that @Casimir Liber agrees...
The rest seems OK in light of your upthread posts and CHA note above.
 

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