The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread

[Snarf Zagyg]

Just mentioning the spell gave me a flashback to the awfulness of the 1E spell stat blocks. All those spells which were present in the lists for multiple different kinds of casters, would only be printed in full in one list, but would have a partial spell listing with arbitrary differences in casting time, area of effect, duration, or other particulars for no discernable reason.

Woah now, those are fighting words!

I am going to argue for the approach used by 1e. Differentiating the spell lists by caster, and having each caster have completely different spell lists ... it really made the spell lists different.

It also (in 1e) kept the spells from overlapping that much. Sure, there was some overlap- druids and clerics both had (for example) Cure Light Wounds. But I would say that the spell lists kept the four classes distinct- spells rarely were exactly identical, and often would be different depending on the caster (famously, reincarnation).

I also don't think that the differences were arbitrary. There was usually some type of reason for the differences, although I admit that you might need a post-graduate degree in Gygaxology to discern the reason behind the lengthier casting time for cure light wounds for clerics as opposed to druids.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Have you read any of the zine module series Through Ultan's Door?

I have not.

 

[Bedrockgames]

It's a little bit more complicated than that. People confuse that with the HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) issue. Coke had already begun the transition the HFCS and completed the switch prior to the New Coke rollout, but it was recent. In other words, while they had begun the switch before (1979-81?) and completed it just prior to the switch, when they went back and served Coke Classic it wasn't the same as the "real sugar" (Mexican Coke!) that some people still had the memory of.

That is interesting. Do you know the status of the decocainized coca leaves in the recipe? I remember hearing rumors that had something to do with it as well (but I've also heard they still use decocainized coca leaves in the production-------and if you call and ask they say it is proprietary information----at least they did many years ago when I did so).

 

[Bolares]

All this talk about those ancient editions made me feel really young.... thak you all.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

It is super-weird to me that WotC, which I guarantee has seen 99% of other publishers' D&D-flavored work, has never said "huh, ribbon bookmarks and useful stuff printed on endpages and book navigation systems in the style of travel guides -- maybe we could do this too!"

I've seen the Mona Lisa. I don't think I could do it, though. (Cheap shot at WotC, but I never found their books usable).

 

[Ryujin]

Things that I will never understand, ENWorld Edition:

1. why someone would choose to keep playing a game that makes them so miserable
2. why people who hate something cannot abide others liking it (and vice versa)
3. the concept of "retro-clones."
4. threads that are just five dozen Chinese characters and the name of a university

1. Dopamine and adrenaline.
2. Narcissism.
3. Some people like the 2012 version of "Total Recall" more than the 1990 version. They're wrong, of course.
4. Shotgun effect. Someone will inevitably click the link.

 

[Mannahnin]

Woah now, those are fighting words!

I am going to argue for the approach used by 1e. Differentiating the spell lists by caster, and having each caster have completely different spell lists ... it really made the spell lists different.

It also (in 1e) kept the spells from overlapping that much. Sure, there was some overlap- druids and clerics both had (for example) Cure Light Wounds. But I would say that the spell lists kept the four classes distinct- spells rarely were exactly identical, and often would be different depending on the caster (famously, reincarnation).

I also don't think that the differences were arbitrary. There was usually some type of reason for the differences, although I admit that you might need a post-graduate degree in Gygaxology to discern the reason behind the lengthier casting time for cure light wounds for clerics as opposed to druids.

Different spell lists for different casters is great! I love that. And I'm totally down with the different tables for Reincarnation based on casting class. But for my money, having tiny little inconsistent differences from spell to spell when a given spell is used by different classes is passing a point of diminishing returns in terms of flavor vs. playability. It was definitely an obstacle to memorization, and the books didn't make looking up the differences all that easy. IIRC they didn't even tell you the page number where the full description was, just which class's list to look under.

Perhaps you're right that arbitrary is the wrong word. On pondering, I do seem to recall a general pattern that Cleric spells had slower casting times than the equivalent spell cast by an M-U, for example. But without a discernable rationale, the differences might as well be arbitrary.

I have not.

It's really great. Sweet art, too. I think you'd appreciate the writing and overall style.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I've seen the Mona Lisa. I don't think I could do it, though. (Cheap shot at WotC, but I never found their books usable).

I am confident their bookbinders know how to do ribbon bookmarks and they can definitely hire someone to give them a layout more like a travel guidebook uses. Printing stuff on endpapers is also trivial, although probably a small uptick in cost, since it's a different quality of paper typically and not part of the signatures used to produce most of the book.

It's a matter of being willing to do it and betting it'll improve the reception and sales of the books. Given all the other RPG publishers who do it (a large, large percentage of them), it seems like it must make sense financially.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

"I don't want to buy a thing, and therefore you don't want to buy it either!"

Uh, OK.

 

[Scribe]

"I don't want to buy a thing, and therefore you don't want to buy it either!"

Uh, OK.

I particularly like the sequel.

"I want to buy the thing, and you not wanting to buy it is actual violence."