D&D 5E A monster stat block should always fit on one side of one page maximum (a poll)

[overgeeked]

One thing I adore about Skerples' Monster Overhaul book is that there's a lot of attention to what the GM is going to use that monster for. Knowing how the kobold or sphinx is different from the mimic or bulette – and designing its monster entry toward that ideal/common usage is what I would like to see.

Monster Overhaul is great. One of the main reasons is because, as you say, it's designed with the GM's use in mind. Like this stuff...

Maybe the kobold section has 2 lines of stats like @overgeeked 's griffon example, and then gets into tons and tons of traps & ways the kobolds interact with traps & maybe some collective lair actions that attack your gear/light sources/separate the party. Whereas the sphinx section might also have a very pared down stat block and instead be rife with trials / riddles / tests of the worthy. The mimic section might have a random table of unusual mimics. And the bulette section stays about how it is in the MM.

Absolutely. Like the Adventurer entry in Monster Overhaul. The stat block is this:

# Appearing: 1d4, or parties equal to the PCs +1
HD: 4 (18 HP)
Appearance: varies widely. Often outlandish, well-armed, and swaggering.
Voice: professional and bold.
Wants: wealth and power. Roll for variations below.
Morality: pragmatic. Not above light torture.
Intelligence: at least as smart and paranoid as the PCs. Adventurers grow cunning with age.
Armour: varies. As leather, chain, plate, or plate+shield depending on wealth and role.
Move: normal.
Morale: 9
Damage: varies. 1d6+1 for lighter weapons, 1d10+2 for heavier weapons. Fighter-types can attack twice each round. Thief-types deal double damage when attacking by surprise.

That's maybe 1/6th of a page. The rest of the page is filled with GM advice and tips on using adventurers, random charts (d10s or d12s) for vices, goals, why they're here, type, and subtype. Then the next three pages are filled with random charts (d100s) for names, features, skills/profession, special tools, and more charts with more names for elves and dwarfs and unusual names and places they could be from.

So everything you might need for that entry is within a few pages while the main stat block itself is short and sweet.

This is how the whole book is done. It's amazing.

Most monster books (not just talking Monster Manual) for 5e cling to the standardized format, and I think it actually restricts creativity and pushes the game even more towards being primarily about fighting. I get it, it's D&D, but there actually are tons of really cool lore bits that never manifest in the monster stat blocks.

Agreed.

 

[Stormonu]

I would disagree. I am a big fan of 2e's often two-pages of stats plus lore. I like having a lot of lore to work from. 1e and Basic sometimes giving no lore and sometimes no physical description was frustrating. 3e and 4e skimping on lore and description, particularly in earlier MMs was disappointing.

I have nothing against a monster that takes up 3 or 4 pages, including lore, habits and the like. But if the Combat Block is bigger than a page, that thing needs to go back and be revised.

 

[Stormonu]

This sounds nice, but makes being swallowed very samey, IMO. I like that different creatures use different slightly rules and effects when swallowing prey.

There's still a lot you can do, this just covers the rules for being swallowed. For example, a purple worm's stat block for bite goes from this:

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 22 (3d8 + 9) piercing damage. If the target is a Large or smaller creature, it must succeed on a DC 19 Dexterity saving throw or be swallowed by the worm. A swallowed creature is blinded and restrained, it has total cover against attacks and other effects outside the worm, and it takes 21 (6d6) acid damage at the start of each of the worm's turns.


If the worm takes 30 damage or more on a single turn from a creature inside it, the worm must succeed on a DC 21 Constitution saving throw at the end of that turn or regurgitate all swallowed creatures, which fall prone in a space within 10 feet of the worm. If the worm dies, a swallowed creature is no longer restrained by it and can escape from the corpse by using 20 feet of movement, exiting prone.

To this:

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 22 (3d8 + 9) piercing damage. If the target is a Large or smaller creature, it must succeed on a DC 19 Dexterity saving throw or be engulfed. An engulfed creature takes 21 (6d6) acid damage at the start of each of the worm's turns. If the worm dies, the target can escape the corpse by using 20 feet of movement, exiting prone.

And then, if you want to, say, have an Ancient Red Dragon use an attack to swallow a party member, you've got the bulk of the rules you need already ready - you just need to figure out how much damage a target takes in the Red Dragon's tummy.

 

[Quickleaf]

If you do stuff radically different, you get bad reviews and people don't buy your stuff. It's just not profitable to really change said line statblocks, if you are working in 5e.

I'm curious what examples you're thinking of where a good product that was 5th edition compatible attempted to do something different and received unjustified negative reviews?

A recent Kickstarter from Cubicle7 called Broken World (for 5e) reimagines D&D through the lens of post-apocalyptic setting that emphasizes community, generational gameplay, self-sacrifice, and exploration. It's very different from standard 5e, but the Kickstarter has been pretty successful. I think that would be a counterpoint example, if I'm understanding your objection right.

 

[gamerprinter]

I treat it as a goal, not a rule, the art sometimes takes up too much space, even when necessary and I'm 3PP, so, it comes up...

 

[overgeeked]

And then, if you want to, say, have an Ancient Red Dragon use an attack to swallow a party member, you've got the bulk of the rules you need already ready - you just need to figure out how much damage a target takes in the Red Dragon's tummy.

To be fair, you can just as easily decide what it does. Whatever makes sense in the moment. You don’t need 50+ words in a stat block to tell you what being swallowed means. Does it bite as it swallows you whole? Take bite damage. Most stomach acid is fairly weak and works over time, so a low amount of automatic damage per round. Does the creature spit acid as an attack, then its stomach acid is probably stronger, so take a high amount of automatic damage per round. You’re in an enclosed space with no natural light. Go.

 

[Zaukrie]

I'm curious what examples you're thinking of where a good product that was 5th edition compatible attempted to do something different and received unjustified negative reviews?

A recent Kickstarter from Cubicle7 called Broken World (for 5e) reimagines D&D through the lens of post-apocalyptic setting that emphasizes community, generational gameplay, self-sacrifice, and exploration. It's very different from standard 5e, but the Kickstarter has been pretty successful. I think that would be a counterpoint example, if I'm understanding your objection right.

I'm talking statblocks and layout type stuff......not fluff and story.

 

[Stormonu]

BTW, conversely, I HATE it when books break a combat block randomly on a page.

Example from Tome of Horrors

Spoiler

Move/resize your artwork dangit, so you don't get those sort of weird breaks.

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm talking statblocks and layout type stuff......not fluff and story.

What's your basis? Is it 'common knowledge' or vague personal experience? Which is an entirely valid answer. Or is it based on a specific product or several products you're thinking of? Genuinely curious.

 

[Zaukrie]

What's your basis? Is it 'common knowledge' or vague personal experience? Which is an entirely valid answer. Or is it based on a specific product or several products you're thinking of? Genuinely curious.

Personal experience on two products....not that I have many reviews. Admittedly, anecdotal....