D&D 5E Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[Staffan]

I am unfamiliar with the Magic the Gathering "Phyrexians".

They are basically Magic's version of the Borg. They are a... culture, I guess you could call them, that spread by infecting others and taking them over, converting them to magitechno-organic versions of themselves in the process.

 

[Kaodi]

Stop trying to make The Book of Erotic Fantasy happen. It's not going to happen.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My suggestion is slavery to be a monopoly by the goverment. PCs can pay rescues to free slaves, but PCs can't own slaves. Oficially slaves are exclusively owned by the goverment/sorcerer-kings. This means if there are slaves working in you palace, these aren't yours really, but "rented" by the goverment, and you have to pay a tax for the "rent".

There is still a possibility and it is a DS but without the Athasian Tablelands but in other place altered by the defiler magic and other genocides Rajaat's champions. For example a reboot of the mini-setting Jakandor, and the wildspace was discovered, explored and almost conquered by the Athasians.

 

[cranberry]

WoTC/3rd party publishers should make the products they want, and let the (potential) customers decide if it's worth purchasing.

 

[Scribe]

They are basically Magic's version of the Borg. They are a... culture, I guess you could call them, that spread by infecting others and taking them over, converting them to magitechno-organic versions of themselves in the process.

Visually, and in terms of their development as villains, they are fantastic. I dont want them in any way involved with D&D though.

 

[CleverNickName]

I think we can take it as given that WotC will not touch this with a 10 foot pole. I also don't think that we should be looking to WotC to provide... Well, anything, honestly.

Well they own Dark Sun and they hold the copyright...so they would have to at least provide their permission to use the Dark Sun IP. ;-)

You're right, though--that's not gonna happen. WotC has the most to lose if an updated Dark Sun goes poorly, so I don't blame them for being stingy about who gets to do what with their branded stuff. Dark Sun is a risky product, certainly more risky than Spelljammer anyway.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Interesting thread. I've got a few disordered thoughts about this.

1. I think we can take it as given that WotC will not touch this with a 10 foot pole. I also don't think that we should be looking to WotC to provide... Well, anything, honestly.
2. Whether and how things like slavery should be included in play, and their inclusion in game publications, are two different questions, as others have made clear.
3. Slavery in particular is a troublesome issue due to the American context. On the one hand, this is another frustrating expression of American cultural imperialism; on the other, there are good reasons (given by @Imaro ) to leave it out, or at least tread carefully.
4. For me, what is most offensive is the whole idea that evil only originates in villains, and that no-one should play characters living in a society that does evil things. We live in a world in which we depend upon, and are complicit in, ecological destruction and economic exploitation, up to and including slavery. The strength of a setting like Dark Sun (with or without slavery) is that it puts these issues front and centre and asks the players 'how will your character deal with this, given the danger of resisting and the difficulty of mere survival?'.
5. Speaking of which, your're not being moral if you're doing it for a reward. D&D is still premised on a worldview in which adventurers can and should murder 'legitimate' targets, and be rewarded for it by the powers that be. A depiction of a violent and hierarchical society that is nonetheless somehow idyllic if not for external enemies who are inherently evil and must be murdered is actually 'problematic', in the way that we used to use the word.

what would non-problematic dnd even look like? I ask as a mixture of thought experiment and also because my brain just makes it board game stardew valley.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Well they own Dark Sun and they hold the copyright...so they would have to at least provide their permission to use the Dark Sun IP. ;-)

You're right, though--that's not gonna happen. WotC has the most to lose if an updated Dark Sun goes poorly, so I don't blame them for being stingy about who gets to do what with their branded stuff. Dark Sun is a risky product, certainly more risky than Spelljammer anyway.

Speaking of, they literally just got done stepping in crap going to the slave well (combined with other attendant racist tropes).

 

[Mind of tempest]

Speaking of, they literally just got done stepping in crap going to the slave well (combined with other attendant racist tropes).

elaborate? as nothing comes to mind and I want to clear up my blind spots?

 

[Vaalingrade]

elaborate? as nothing comes to mind and I want to clear up my blind spots?

The Hadozee from Spelljammer were monkey people who were ex-slaves (up-lifted from animals !!!?) depicted in the minstrel pose in the new Spelljammer on top of being depicted as 'happy in labor' in a previous incarnation. Basically, racism Voltron.