D&D 5E Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[MGibster]

Yeah, that moment is growing. A softened Dark Sun with a stereotypical "free the slaves and kill the masters" quest capitalizing on black misery is not getting my money.

How is it capitalizing on black misery? Don't get me wrong, I understand the history of enslavement here in the United States, but as others have pointed out, there were a myraid of slave societies in the ancient world. How does Dark Sun specifically capitalize on black misery?

 

[MGibster]

It feels easier than in teaching history where (most?) people seemingly have a hard time admitting that their ancestors and country were very excremental in at least some aspects and that there wasn't really an excuse for going along with it. Or that they themselves are invariably going to be rightfully judged as failing in some manner. Is it easier in fantasy settings to have someone with almost no positive qualities to make the right choice more obvious?

I am perfectly comfortable with the idea that my ancestors may have been dirty rotten bastards at times. I'm even comfortable with the idea that some people I admire from the past had or even did some pretty odious things in the past. Not Bass Reeves though. He can never disappoint me.

 

[tetrasodium]

How is it capitalizing on black misery? Don't get me wrong, I understand the history of enslavement here in the United States, but as others have pointed out, there were a myraid of slave societies in the ancient world. How does Dark Sun specifically capitalize on black misery?

It didn't. I think the post you are quoting is talking about a hypothetical where it was twisted away from being darksun & into such a thing

 

[MichaelSomething]

I'll believe WOTC has the guts to publish things that may upset people when I see "Come and Get it" brought over from 4th Edition!

 

[Shardstone]

Why even keep slavery, actually? I thought on it long and hard, despite my earlier post.

Couldn't we replace it with something more interesting and insidious? We have these Sorcerer-Kings who are also 20th level psions. Why not have them use psionics to mindscrew people into being in their city-state? Afterall, in a Wasteland environment, numbers rule. If you can brainwash pepole into believing they've always been a citizen, or that they've long since pledged their loyalty to the sorcerer-king, then you don't need slaves. You can build a thriving city-state by abducting people and hitting them with the 9th level psychic magic nonsense.

It sounds perfect for Dark Sun, keeps the core of the ideas, but adds a lot more nuance and a less icky angle one could take. Now people aren't in literal chains being whipped and beaten, they've been possessed by a psionic "virus" that makes them leal fanatics who love their god-like rulers.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Why even keep slavery, actually? I thought on it long and hard, despite my earlier post.

Couldn't we replace it with something more interesting and insidious? We have these Sorcerer-Kings who are also 20th level psions. Why not have them use psionics to mindscrew people into being in their city-state? Afterall, in a Wasteland environment, numbers rule. If you can brainwash pepole into believing they've always been a citizen, or that they've long since pledged their loyalty to the sorcerer-king, then you don't need slaves. You can build a thriving city-state by abducting people and hitting them with the 9th level psychic magic nonsense.

It sounds perfect for Dark Sun, keeps the core of the ideas, but adds a lot more nuance and a less icky angle one could take. Now people aren't in literal chains being whipped and beaten, they've been possessed by a psionic "virus" that makes them leal fanatics who love their god-like rulers.

Not a bad idea. Except people are not comfortable with enchantments or things that strip away consent or free will.

Mind control is out. I am guessing psychic torture too.

Or say life outside the city states is so dangerous and water so scarce that people cluster together, dependent on the “benevolent” rulers to provide water.

I am sure dark sun is dead on arrival regardless. I would love a third party to get it and update it but again, guessing it’s going to be the fandom alone.

(As to above, I think your idea could work but am just anticipating how some folks will react to any loss of control of their character and map that onto real world scenarios).

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The pirates from History books attacked villages in the coast to catch slaves. Should we ban Peter Pan and all books for children with pirates?

There is slavery in DS because it is a postapocaliptic dystopia. If there are slaveres is becaue these are to be kicked-ass by the heroes. The metaplot starts with the death of Kalak. This means the sorcerer-kings aren't totally invincible and they can fall.

If there is a reason because I wouldn't feel confortable with the slavery in the fiction is the idea this can't be avoided. We have to stop any possible "learned helplessness". The fight against the slavery can be very slow, hard and painful, but the end of this is not only possible, but also totally necessary.

Maybe the sorcerer-kings with their psionic powers mind-controlled the population, at least for the first generations, but after a century it wasn't so necessary. One of the reasons to allow enough free will is for the generational replacement and to avoid demographic crisis the citizens should can fall in love and create families.

Other idea those tyrants should have learnt is "being loved and feared is better than only feared", "the cruel rulers can be betrayed (or suffer rebelion) more likely, unnecessary cruelty must be avoided" and "the positive stimuli are stronger than the punishments, that is why gamblers do not punish with the lost money".

And in the Athasian Tablelands they couldn't buy more slaves from a far zone. They had to worry about taking good care of their "merchandise" because if this was broken by the abuse they couldn't buy a new one.

---

A DS videogame is possible, for example about building a camp for futigive slaves.

The movie "lethal weapon 4" was about slavery.

 

[CleverNickName]

aaaaaand this is where I leave the thread.

 

[Faolyn]

The pirates from History books attacked villages in the coast to catch slaves. Should we ban Peter Pan and all books for children with pirates?

Dark Sun isn't being banned.

They're simply not putting out a new book. You can still buy the old ones.

 

[Scribe]

Why even keep slavery, actually? I thought on it long and hard, despite my earlier post.

Couldn't we replace it with something more interesting and insidious? We have these Sorcerer-Kings who are also 20th level psions. Why not have them use psionics to mindscrew people into being in their city-state? Afterall, in a Wasteland environment, numbers rule. If you can brainwash pepole into believing they've always been a citizen, or that they've long since pledged their loyalty to the sorcerer-king, then you don't need slaves. You can build a thriving city-state by abducting people and hitting them with the 9th level psychic magic nonsense.

It sounds perfect for Dark Sun, keeps the core of the ideas, but adds a lot more nuance and a less icky angle one could take. Now people aren't in literal chains being whipped and beaten, they've been possessed by a psionic "virus" that makes them leal fanatics who love their god-like rulers.

Multiple threads here (a year ago? Maybe?) went into how Enchantment/Charm/Mind Control is probably if we think about it, pretty out of bounds.