D&D 5E Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[Argyle King]

The rules are CC. Setting info and lore is most decidedly not.

Thanks for the clarification.
I've admittedly somewhat tuned out of following the most recent updates.

Well, hypothetically, if someone else went through the process of adapting Dark Sun to a game which is not 5e, would people buy it or would an update need to be D&D?

Alternatively, would people be open to a setting done in the spirit of Dark Sun but without being Dark Sun (like how Pathfinder's Golarion based on D&D settings but not a D&D setting)?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Since I don’t play 5Ed, a well-done DarkSun homage setting would be something I’d at least consider buying. The more system-neutral it was, the higher the probability I’d get it, because I’m probably nowhere near playing whatever else is popular these days.

TBH, though, I have bought RPG materials for systems I rarely, if ever, play, merely because I know I can use them as resources. That’s why my RPG collection currently stands at touching 70 or so systems…after a massive culling from over 120.

 

[Faolyn]

They churned out what they thought was cool, and that people would buy. They weren't hamstrung by social media. It was a better time for creativity. Most of the things I love about D&D originated in the 2e era.

You can say hamstrung... but it also means that they very likely put out a lot of stuff that was unintentionally harmful (Orcs of Thar, as the most obvious one) because they didn't think to not do it. Like, take a look at Planescape. I love Planescape. The only reason I don't run it is because I don't think I'm suited for the type of cosmic situations that Planescape calls for; I do better on a smaller scale. But... look at the gods. Gods who are important to modern religions and modern people were treated as equal to the gods of fantasy worlds and fantasy religions, or even lesser. There would have been an uproar if they had plopped down figures from Abrahamic religions in the Great Wheel, but they saw no problem saying where the Hindu and Norse (Asatru) gods are. And earlier still (Deities & Demigods, Legends & Lore), those gods were statted out, so you could kill them if you wanted to.

You know how I feel about Ravenloft. But thieving, murderous, child-snatching "gypsies" were there from the Black Box--and Van Richten's Guide to the Vistani, produced much, much later on, went too far the other way, by making them into magical not-quite-humans instead of treating them purely as people, like, y'know actual Romani actually are.

This isn't cool. It wasn't cool then, either. But most people didn't know that because the world was much smaller then. And those that did know had little way to talk about it. Send a letter to TSR and hope they would read it? Send a letter to Dragon magazine and hope they'd print it?

For all of its faults, social media at least gives people the way to say "this isn't acceptable" where they couldn't do so in any appreciable numbers before.

 

[Faolyn]

Slavery is not the only problematic content in DS, there is more, way more.
I'm not saying that it can't technically be made without it, I'm saying that it kinda stops being DS.

Then that doesn't say much about the setting now, does it?

You'd think that Dark Sun could rest on the defiling magic, the ubiquitous psionics, the reliance on elementals, the use of unusual monsters instead of demons and orcs, the post-apocalypse desert-world feel... but if what it really needs is slavery, and without it, it stops being Dark Sun... then it's not really a good setting.

Because see, if you get rid of the Colosseum, you still have an expansionist empire, a melting pot of people, political intrigue, enemies without and without, constant warfare, emperors of various levels of sanity, a variety of religions in conflict with one another, art and theater, remarkable levels of technology, and a whole lot more. You can have an incredibly realistic and fulfilling Roman-era game without ever touching on bloodsports. Heck, the actual Colossems actually did mock battles in addition to literally killing people for fun.

 

[Digdude]

I still find it funny that people climb the rightous mountain when slavery comes up in topic about a game that enspouses war, violence, and theft. My anthropology senses are baffeled. How do you skim these things apart? Is truly eliminating slavery from rpgs because it offends people affected by historic slavery any less important then eliminating murder, war, or theft from those affected by those things?

 

[ReshiIRE]

Violence, war and theft can be justified.

Slavery can't.

Granted, of course, war is in the vast majority of cases wrong, violence is very often wrong and theft can be quite wrong. But depending on the situation it can be justified.

Slavery literally never can be, under pretty much zero circumstances.

 

[Raiztt]

I still find it funny that people climb the rightous mountain when slavery comes up in topic about a game that enspouses war, violence, and theft. My anthropology senses are baffeled. How do you skim these things apart? Is truly eliminating slavery from rpgs because it offends people affected by historic slavery and less important then eliminating murdern, war, or theft from those affected by those things?

I think the position would be that at least in the United States, (which I realize is not the entire world), we have a long history of racial prejudice that includes not just chattel slavery but other forms systemic persecution towards specific 'races', for lack of a better word, of people. The point is that this isn't a special or unique evil, just one that is particularly inflammatory or offensive to people in the United States.

 

[Raiztt]

Violence, war and theft can be justified.

Slavery can't.

Granted, of course, war is in the vast majority of cases wrong, violence is very often wrong and theft can be quite wrong. But depending on the situation it can be justified.

Slavery literally never can be, under pretty much zero circumstances.

You should be careful with words like "always" and "never" because I am fairly confident that I can concoct at least one hypothetical situation which would violate that statement.

Also, there are a lot of people who would simply disagree with your first statement that "Violence, war and theft can be justified."

I guess what I am saying is that you are massively begging the question in a way that I think just ignores/dismisses other people's valid criticisms.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

There should be a backdoor option, a monster manual about "horrors of the dessert", and other style "Sandstorm" with defiler magic (in a subclass style Blighter prestige class) and PC species. It would be more strategy style "Don't complete the premade complete pack but the pieces, and allow the player create in the way these wanted".

My theory is they are going to start from zero with a spiritual succesor. Maybe it is better like this.

Any other suggestion? Yes, if Kamigawa changed into the cyberpunk, why not Kaladesh and Amonketh to evolutionate to an "Athasian"/Hyrborian-punk style?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I didn't like the party where they almost went out of business (a few times?).

Me neither, but the content we got (which wouldn't have happened if they were a better run business) was worth it.