D&D 5E Spell level of Warlock Invocations for Dispel Magic DC

[WizardOfFrobozz]

What spell level should be used to determine the DC for dispelling persistent magical effects created by a warlock invocation that either (1) doesn't explicitly involve casting a spell per se, e.g., Cloak of Flies, or (2) is written to allow casting of a spell without using a spell slot or explicitly leveling the spell?

The default answer that comes to mind is "Warlock invocations should all be considered to be 'cast' at the level of the Warlock's spell slots unless explicitly stated otherwise (e.g., Fiendish Vigor)." Any good arguments for taking a different approach?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There is a general rule that any spell cast without a slot is cast at the lowest level available. This includes the warlock ones.

RAW, Cloak of Flies cannot be dispelled.

 

[WizardOfFrobozz]

There is a general rule that any spell cast without a slot is cast at the lowest level available. This includes the warlock ones.

RAW, Cloak of Flies cannot be dispelled.

What rule(s) would prevent Cloak of Flies from being affected by a casting of Dispel Magic?

 

[Rabulias]

What rule(s) would prevent Cloak of Flies from being affected by a casting of Dispel Magic?

Sage Advice says:
Dispel magic has a particular purpose: to break other spells. It has no effect on a vampire’s Charm ability or any other magical effect that isn’t a spell. It also does nothing to the properties of a magic item. It can, however, end a spell cast from a magic item or from another source. Spells — they’re what dispel magic is about.

Edited to add: The dispel magic spell description specifically talks about affecting spells.

 

[pukunui]

Sage Advice says:
Dispel magic has a particular purpose: to break other spells. It has no effect on a vampire’s Charm ability or any other magical effect that isn’t a spell. It also does nothing to the properties of a magic item. It can, however, end a spell cast from a magic item or from another source. Spells — they’re what dispel magic is about.

Edited to add: The dispel magic spell description specifically talks about affecting spells.

Yeah, the name of the spell is somewhat misleading in 5e. They possibly should have called it something else.

 

[jgsugden]

For those that like Dispel Magic to work on things beyond spells: A HOUSE RULE that I've introduced to many others is:

Magic effects without a spell level are treated as if they had a spell level as follows:

• For magic effects generated by a class ability: Consider the level at which it could first be available. Treat it as a spell level equal to that character level divided by 2 and rounded up.
• For monster abilities, treat the spell level as the CR of the monster divided by 3 rounded up.
• For magic items, do it by rarity: Uncommon and Common = 1, Rare = 3, Very Rare = 5, Legendary = 7 and Artifact = 9.
• For effects that do not originate with spells, monsters, or magic items: Figure out where the effect is centralized. Look at the nearest monsters and treat the effect as if the monster created it.

It isn't perfect, but it works well.

 

[WizardOfFrobozz]

Sage Advice says:
Dispel magic has a particular purpose: to break other spells. It has no effect on a vampire’s Charm ability or any other magical effect that isn’t a spell. It also does nothing to the properties of a magic item. It can, however, end a spell cast from a magic item or from another source. Spells — they’re what dispel magic is about.

Edited to add: The dispel magic spell description specifically talks about affecting spells.

Yeah, the bit about being able to target a "magical effect" in the description of Dispel Magic was leading me in a different direction, but it's sure a lot cleaner to deal with that way. Thanks for the Sage Advice pointer!

 

[MarkB]

Yeah, the name of the spell is somewhat misleading in 5e. They possibly should have called it something else.

Dispel dat spell.

 

[jgsugden]

I'll note that in my campaign setting I have 5 types of magic. Three (Arcane, Divine, Nature) work through the Spell Weave (a conduit that runs from the heart of the Positive Material Plane to the heart of the Negative Material Plane). The other two (Supernatural and Psionic) are not connected to the Spell Weave. Detect Magic, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, etc... all work on the Spell Weave and thus only impact Arcane, Divine and Natural magics. Supernatural magics (which covers things like Werewolves and Ghosts, as well as science like Chemistry) and Psionics (which cover my Psions, Psionic Warriors and Ki users) generate magic from other sources (usually internal ones) and thus do not get impacted by a Dispel Magic spell. However, if you're a cleric, a druid or a sorcerer - anything you can do magically (generally) comes from the weave and can be dispelled using the rules I posted above.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Dispel dat spell.

nha, ''Dispel this spell''