D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[Vael]

I find myself in the middle here.

First, I've seen the "I only have 2 spell slots, so I'm holding onto them and casting Eldritch Blast ... again" that was described. And TBH, Coffeelock builds and Warlock/Paladins using the short rest spells to fuel smites have always annoyed me. So I'm not a fan of Pact magic in its current incarnation.

But, having played Artificers ... the half caster progression might work for the Ranger and Paladin, who are warriors with a side of magic, but Warlocks and Artificers feel like magic using classes first ... and half-caster ain't going to cut it.

 

[TwoSix]

Yeah, its an issue where warlocks end up feeling either underpowered or overpowered, depending on how any specific table runs short rests. Its why I hate short-rest-classes. They're so inconsistent that it can be painful.

EDIT - honestly, its mostly because they're a victim of the assumed-adventure-day that they based all the math around and failed to hold true in reality. Its frustrating.

I don't hate the short rest classes, I hate the short rest rules for not making it simpler to take a short rest.

My current house rule is that anyone can take a short rest as long as there's a 10 minute break from combat, (you can short rest while walking around and exploring) and it happens individually. Each PC can take 2 short rests before needing a long rest. Works wonderfully.

 

[ChameleonX]

I like everything except the removal of Pact Magic. When we said we wanted more spell slots, we didn't mean to gut the entire system. We just meant we wanted more spell slots.

Like, literally just give them more. Maybe base it on their casting stat? Or, like was mentioned before, give an easy way to recharge them that doesn't require a short rest. Just an "Arcane Recovery" feature that can be used x/day would work.

 

[Charlaquin]

It’s almost like there's more to the class than pact magic, yah? Or someone likes the themes more than the mechanics.

But it’s like calling yourself “a fan of fighters in general” and saying you don’t like at-will classes. An at-will class is what the fighter is. Either you like at least one at-will class, or you aren’t exactly a fan of fighters. At best, you like the idea of fighters. That’s kinda how I am about rangers. Love the idea, but the 5e class just doesn’t suit it appropriately for my tastes.

 

[mamba]

How exactly is it any harder to predict warlock power because they depend on short rests than it is to predict wizard power because they depend on long rests?

1 long rest per day vs 0 to 4 short rests per day…

 

[Reef]

But, having played Artificers ... the half caster progression might work for the Ranger and Paladin, who are warriors with a side of magic, but Warlocks and Artificers feel like magic using classes first ... and half-caster ain't going to cut it.

That’s a very good point. My viewpoint is probably skewed by being a hex blade. If I was one of the other warlock types who relied more on spells, half-caster might not seem so appealing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

1 long rest per day vs 0 to 4 short rests per day…

Or, much better: 1 per every encounter.

 

[Charlaquin]

I know they can. But, I swear, when I DM for people playing Warlocks, if feels like all they ever do is Eldritch Blast! And people complain about a Fighter and his sword!

I mean, that’s a perfectly valid way to play a warlock, if you want to. And I’d argue it’s a good thing to have a spellcaster that works for players who want a simple character who just spams their at-will “do damage” button every turn. The fact that the warlock could handle both being the caster equivalent of the simple fighter and being the hyper-customizable class for people who enjoy the character-building minigame was a testament to the excellence of its design.

 

[Reef]

I like everything except the removal of Pact Magic. When we said we wanted more spell slots, we didn't mean to gut the entire system. We just meant we wanted more spell slots.

Like, literally just give them more. Maybe base it on their casting stat? Or, like was mentioned before, give an easy way to recharge them that doesn't require a short rest. Just an "Arcane Recovery" feature that can be used x/day would work.

Going the Arcane Recovery route would work. Just balance it to equal the number of expected Short Rests.

 

[Charlaquin]

relying on short rests is broken, I much prefer the new version which does not

Nah, short tests are approximately a billion times better than long rests as a pacing mechanic.