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D&D (2024) What spells should be dropped?

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I'm not sure we need both.

Also, seems like rope trick should scale into magnificent mansion.
This I really like. I'd love "spell chains" where you learn the spell and it has significant differecnes at certain upcast milestones. We have a few that sort of touch it, like losing the need for Concentration on Hex, but having a "magical shelter" spell that covered Rope Trick, Leomund's, And Mordy's Magnificent Mansion would be cool.

Of course, we'd also need to revamp ritual casting to allow upcasting.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Disadvantage is worth roughly -2.5 on the roll. So…yeah, it gives a low level paladin roughly the same as a thief with expertise.
Yep, and the thief is gonna pass most stealth checks anyway.
My rule of thumb is that if a spell is so good that it becomes more or less mandatory (i.e. if you can take it, you should), then it either needs a nerf or is a candidate for removal. Pass without a Trace is such a spell. So is healing word. So is spirit guardians. So is fireball. So is revivify. So is wish.
Hard disagree. I’d be fine with making PWT a ranger class feature in place of one of thier various bad class features, but it’s definitely a spell not everyone takes. Fireball only get picked IME by blaster-casters, wish is iconic and should be available to more characters, and healing word and revivify are basics. Like Counterspell, Detect Magic, Identify, and various others, they’re great examples of how a lot of spells should just be part of Spellcasting, gated by some sort of proficiency. Barring that, they can stay as common spells.

Spirit guardians is an iconic cleric spell at this point, so if it’s a problem outside of clerics, I’d make it cleric only before I’d remove it.
IMO
Pass without a trace.
For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you can use your Dexterity (Stealth) roll, and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its passage.

That could still be +10 for an 8Dex character.
Tbh I want something like that to be a Rogue ability with no supernatural association. Like give me something like that as part of expertise for the rogue only. Maybe give the rogue has:

Learn By Teaching. When you and at least one ally are making an ability check using the same proficiency, you can allow creatures up to your X* to use your skill bonus for that ability check, in place of their own.

*either 1, and then 2 when you get more expertise, and it’s at-will, or several allies and you can only use it a couple times a day scaling with rogue level.
 
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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Pass without Trace. Or at least the ridiculous +10 to stealth. That's some 3E bonus right there. "What's bounded proficiency?" says WOTC.
It's the "how do we allow group stealth" hack. Because of course Magic will fix everything and there's no way to do it via one character's skill. Really, they can solve by using that as an example for Group Skill Checks.
 

Nadan

Explorer
Tbh I want something like that to be a Rogue ability with no supernatural association. Like give me something like that as part of expertise for the rogue only. Maybe give the rogue has:

Learn By Teaching. When you and at least one ally are making an ability check using the same proficiency, you can allow creatures up to your X* to use your skill bonus for that ability check, in place of their own.

*either 1, and then 2 when you get more expertise, and it’s at-will, or several allies and you can only use it a couple times a day scaling with rogue level.
I don't know about this, I don't against the idea like someone is so good at stealth that they just become invisible and impossible to be found without special sense. But the "teach other" part doesn't feel really rouge to me, more like some stealth base bard subclass. It just my feeling that rouge isn't the knowledge sharing type of class.
 

Yawn.

Let's keep every spell, but add some more spice to them. Supernatural powers work really well when there is a sacrifice or drawback associated with it. OP spells, and really any spell from 6th-9th level, should have a drawback. Maybe make a drawback table for each school of spells. Make it a d12. You roll a d4, d6, d8, or d12 on the table depending on the spells level (6/7/8/9 in order). Or go through the spells and do what Lamentations of the Flame Princess did with V*****s Are Magic and give each spell a specific drawback or rolltable of drawbacks. That would help take care of Caster vs Martial stuff and make high level play a lot more cerebral and interesting, IMO.

A lot of work? Maybe! Who cares? Do it anyway!
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I also think you could easily remove about half of the spells in the game with little noticeable impact, once you consider how many spells are minor variations or just seldom taken. Possibly three quarters.
Maybe at AL tables and/or powergamer tables.
And I know that, whatever spell you mention, you will get folks on a forum like this claiming that it is the best spell ever because reasons. I see a LOT of character sheets, though, and the reality is that a relative handful of spells see 90% of the action.
You see a small fraction of all the sheets in use, literally no matter who you are or what you do that puts “a LOT” of sheets in front of you.

I’ve run D&D at the public library, and at local events, and my D&D groupis actually an overlapping set of 4 different groups, and I’ve seen sheets with cookie cutter spell selection a vanishingly small number of items.

Neither of our anecdotes prove anything.
An interesting exercise is to make a list of just the vital spells for each class, the ones that are must-haves.
Only for the purpose of buffing up some of the least used spells that are seldom used because they don’t execute their fiction well.
Simulacrium. I don't see how you do that in a "as thematic" and not-broken way... maybe if they shared spell slots with the caster you could pull it into a usable spell, but even then...
Just don’t allow the Sim to make a Sim. Or more than one Sim of the same person will self destruct the older one regardless of who made it. Whatever. Having one simulacrum that costs 100g per hp to repair, 1500 to create, can’t regain spell slots, and can’t learn, just doesn’t seem all that OP to me.

If you need soemthing to nerf it, make it use the caster’s HP or HD in creation, and you can’t regain them while the sim exists.
leomands tiny battle bunker
😂 Not gonna lie, I’d love that spell, if it were made for that purpose. D&D needs a group protection combat spell like that. Let those protected shoot spells and whatever else out of it, maybe high level version even trickles in some healing while inside, and incoming attacks are needed in some way, scaling with spell slot level.

I’d also love a similar but there-and -gone reaction version that is just like shield but for an area, makes a dome, spells are blocked unless the caster can overcome your spell DC with a Spellcasting check, “we can’t be touched for a few seconds or longer if the caster maintains it as an action and keeps concentration, making checks every time the dome is hit by anything” spell.

Maybe the protective dome has HP, and takes damage after the first round it’s up, and the caster has to use an action and make concentration checks to keep it going every time the dome takes damage, and can spend spell slots to “heal” the dome.
This I really like. I'd love "spell chains" where you learn the spell and it has significant differecnes at certain upcast milestones. We have a few that sort of touch it, like losing the need for Concentration on Hex, but having a "magical shelter" spell that covered Rope Trick, Leomund's, And Mordy's Magnificent Mansion would be cool.
While I dislike the specific example, I agree with the sentiment.
Of course, we'd also need to revamp ritual casting to allow upcasting.
I’d love it if they did that anyway.
It's the "how do we allow group stealth" hack. Because of course Magic will fix everything and there's no way to do it via one character's skill. Really, they can solve by using that as an example for Group Skill Checks.
This is why I like the idea of Rogue getting the ability to help while breaking the action economy when making the same check as another PC, if the rogue has expertise in the skill.

For the magic solution, I’d make PWT a ranger class feature that auto-scales with ranger level, keep it as a Druid spell but increase the level or make it a level-scaling spell, perhaps capping out with a level 6 casting being a group invisibility.

For general use I’d make the group check rules very clear and present in the PHB and maybe make helping others easier in a group check generally, but rogues with expertise do it even better.
 

mellored

Legend
Tbh I want something like that to be a Rogue ability with no supernatural association. Like give me something like that as part of expertise for the rogue only. Maybe give the rogue has:

Learn By Teaching. When you and at least one ally are making an ability check using the same proficiency, you can allow creatures up to your X* to use your skill bonus for that ability check, in place of their own.
Doesn't seem line a rogue feature to me. Maybe the mastermind, but not a core rogue feature.

Non-magical ranger, sure.
 



kilpatds

Explorer
Just don’t allow the Sim to make a Sim. Or more than one Sim of the same person will self destruct the older one regardless of who made it. Whatever. Having one simulacrum that costs 100g per hp to repair, 1500 to create, can’t regain spell slots, and can’t learn, just doesn’t seem all that OP to me.
:ROFLMAO:

1500gp for "a not-concentration non-disruptable haste that also gives you a 2nd point to cast spells from and duplicates all your spell slots except for one" is a GOOD SPELL.

I'm biased here from high-level AL play, but 1500gp at the level in question doesn't seem like that much.
 

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