Picard Season 3

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Getting BACK to Picard (remember the show this thread is about?)

 

[Hussar]

I remember a discussion I had some years ago about Marvel movies changing characters and the comment that stuck with me was that characters should only be changed - to poc’s or sexuality or gender - if that change is justified by the story. So you can only have a white Peter Parker unless you completely rewrite the whole character and back story and get Milo Morales.

And it always stuck with me, that comment. Because it completely ignores the fact that the only reason most Marvel characters are white is because they had to be because of the time they were written. Very, very few Marvel characters “have” to be white. Captain America? Sure. You cannot have a black or female Steve Rogers in America in 1940. But most characters? There’s no reason why they are straight, white or male. Other than they were created at a time when there was no other option.

 

[Zardnaar]

I remember a discussion I had some years ago about Marvel movies changing characters and the comment that stuck with me was that characters should only be changed - to poc’s or sexuality or gender - if that change is justified by the story. So you can only have a white Peter Parker unless you completely rewrite the whole character and back story and get Milo Morales.

And it always stuck with me, that comment. Because it completely ignores the fact that the only reason most Marvel characters are white is because they had to be because of the time they were written. Very, very few Marvel characters “have” to be white. Captain America? Sure. You cannot have a black or female Steve Rogers in America in 1940. But most characters? There’s no reason why they are straight, white or male. Other than they were created at a time when there was no other option.

I'm not a fan of swapping characters from original portrayals myself but it depends on how it's done and what genre it is. I don't mind new characters doing their own thing eg Blade. I don't really need to see a white Blade and I'm not convinced they can replace Wesley Snipes either.

Note I'm not a fan of super hero movies generally but do like Blade and Sony if the Batman movies.

It's not really about representation to me I just want quality shows. Orville did it better IMHO and Discovery isn't the worst offender for boring trek.

But it has been weaponized by American culture war BS. Quality has suffered due to lazy writing then you can guess the response and counter response. Race swapping and xyz baiting tend to be lazy writing IMHO often indicative of poor quality.

What America is doing now we did it mid 90's every night 7pm and no one cared to much. It wasn't to heavy handed though and they had time to develop the characters.

But if you churn out crap you might be doing your cause more harm than good. Not only will the usual suspect bitch and moan everyone else will pass as well.

If nu Treks that bad have you watched TNG recently? Alot of it is really bad not just season 1&2. Picard S1 wasn't that bad neither was Discovery.

 

[Hussar]

Heh. It’s funny people point to Orville. I tried to like it. I really did. Managed to get through three seasons hoping it would get better.

I do not like The Orville. Overly preachy, I just find it unwatchable. I gave up some time in season three. The characters were unsympathetic and really unlikeable to me.

I just don’t get the appeal ofThe Orville.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Heh. It’s funny people point to Orville. I tried to like it. I really did. Managed to get through three seasons hoping it would get better.

I do not like The Orville. Overly preachy, I just find it unwatchable. I gave up some time in season three. The characters were unsympathetic and really unlikeable to me.

I just don’t get the appeal ofThe Orville.

Different strokes.

 

[Hussar]

Huh. The Little Mermaid with a white Ariel is a Disney classic but the exact same story with a black Ariel is lazy writing. Funny how that works.

 

[Zardnaar]

Huh. The Little Mermaid with a white Ariel is a Disney classic but the exact same story with a black Ariel is lazy writing. Funny how that works.

Moe lazy due to yet another remake. Haven't seen the original so care factor is minimal.

Might watch it on Disney+ later looks OK. Enjoyed the Aladin one.

 

[Hussar]

Honestly I think the real problem is trying to separate honest critique from …well… criticism that is grounded in less honest base.

Is it lazy writing to cast black actors as hobbits? A black Hermione on stage? A black Anne Boleyn?

If it really doesn’t matter, then why do we wind up having the word for word same conversation every single time? A black Vulcan was tokenism when Viyager did it. A black actor playing an elf was tokenism. Every single time we cast anyone with an excess of melanin, it’s automatically described as tokenism.

Makes the conversation really hard.

 

[Zardnaar]

Honestly I think the real problem is trying to separate honest critique from …well… criticism that is grounded in less honest base.

Is it lazy writing to cast black actors as hobbits? A black Hermione on stage? A black Anne Boleyn?

If it really doesn’t matter, then why do we wind up having the word for word same conversation every single time? A black Vulcan was tokenism when Viyager did it. A black actor playing an elf was tokenism. Every single time we cast anyone with an excess of melanin, it’s automatically described as tokenism.

Makes the conversation really hard.

For me it's specific individuals and genres. Mostly historical period pieces. I wouldn't want Tom Cruise playing Mansa Musa or Idris Elba as Henry VIII for example.

 

[Stalker0]

Boring and unlikeable tend to be a matter of personal opinion.

Not when you do mass polling of people, which all modern shows do. They all poll to find out how their audience likes or dislikes certain characters.

While yes ask 2 people if character X is boring, and you'll get personal opinion. Take 1000, and now your getting trends and statistics.