D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Micah Sweet]

The narrative justification currently in the book is perfectly adequate for the admission of superhuman abilities into the classes we are talking about.

Hell, as part of creating the fighter you are supposed to think about "what sets you apart from the mundane warriors around you".

Strong disagree. No mention of supernatural abilities or potential in either the fighter or rogue descriptions. That's what would need to be fixed first.

 

[Micah Sweet]

First of all, we did pick them. I wrote an entire entry. I believe someone else did the same.

Secondly, pick a single definitive example of a sorcerer's power source.

Do they have a magical bloodline? Were they blessed by a powerful being? Cursed by a powerful being? Were they born in extraordinary circumstances? Did they come into contact with a powerful artifact or force that altered them?

The answer? All of them. The PHB sorcerer entry gives multiple explanations. So... why is that good enough for the sorcerer... but not good enough for this martial rewrite?

I personally would have liked the sorcerer narrative to be narrowed down a little. I liked the bloodline idea from 3e for example.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, the argument is if you don't use the word "magic" somewhere..

You don't get to do anything beyond earth-standard.

Unparalleled mastery
..nope try again
Thorough knowledge of skills of combat
..pftt
Well acquainted with death, meting it out and staring it defiantly in the face
..yawn.
Superior combatant
..nahhh.
Raw physical power honed to deadly perfection
..still haven't said the magic worrrrd

I'd love for 'elan' to be the one word that does the trick, but this seems unlikely.

None of those imply superhuman abilities unless you decide they do, and that's not good enough for everyone.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Have you met bards?

Bards have magic, and the source of their supernatural abilities is spelled out in the text. Just do the same with fighter, as @Chaosmancer has done, and use that to create the abilities you want.

 

[Tonguez]

That's the same as not offering any narrative at all.

the narrative is already there though, all Fighters share

1. unparalleled mastery with weapons and armor
2. a thorough knowledge of the skills of combat
3. acquainted with death
4. staring death defiantly in the face

now how can those four themes be translated into epic death defying abilities

 

[Micah Sweet]

Fair enough. So, let's go there. Presume that there is some sort of acceptable writeup for whatever flavor of mythical level character you'd like to see, and let's see the actual mechanics of that mythical character.

See, me? I'm a HUUUGE fan of exploding dice and lots of die rolling. My mythical warrior would get a power, somewhere in the high levels, where he just continues making attacks until he misses or there's nothing left to kill. You don't get X attacks per round. You get to attack until you miss or run out of targets. To me? That's a mythic level warrior. Maybe limit it to Proficiency bonus/day. I could live with that.

The warrior attacks spells that have concentration. The AC is equal to the casters Save DC. The attack deals no actual damage but triggers a Concentration check equal to either 10 or half the damage the warrior would have dealt on a hit, whichever is higher.

The warrior has a Proficiency Bonus number of times per day that he just succeeds on a check. If he wants to leap a chasm? He succeeds.

But, then again, I'm pretty simple. I'm sure others could come up with more interesting stuff.

So the mechanics are the only thing that matters, and you can just slot any old narrative in?

 

[Micah Sweet]

IIRC, “grit” was used in Pathfinder for the Gunslinger mechanics (similar to the Battlemaster’s Superiority Dice). Matt Mercer even ported it over for Percy’s Gunslinger subclass when CR converted to 5e. I wouldn’t mind if WotC borrowed that for new Fighter mechanics. They might need to change it from “grit” to something like “determination”, but all this “grit and determination and heart” start to sound like hockey talk mumbo jumbo.

Gunslingers don't have built-in supernatural abilities in the base class. Grit is perfectly acceptable under those circumstances.

 

[Micah Sweet]

fighters getting one free battlemaster dice each turn (doesn't stack, use it or loose it) would be a nice addition to just letting them do more in fights (with battlemasters themselves having their additional stash of dice to use)

i've already mentioned this upthread but AoE basic weapon attacks is something i'd like to see for fighters

naturally learning more fighting styles is a must IMO, it's rediculous that most fighters will only ever pick up one fighting style in 20 levels (barring multiclassing or feats)
given a bit of thought i feel like fighting styles could be developed to have a corresponding stance that has to be actively applied in addition to their passive effects

an ability i devised myself that i'd like them to see would be 'boot camp' being able to get trained or train someone else to be temporarily proficient in a skill over the course of a short/long rest

being able to throw weapons (ones that don't naturally have the thrown property)

most of these aren't really 'mythic fighter tier abilities' but they're still abilities i think a mythic fighter should still be more than capable of

This reminds me of the Level Up fighter. Full access to the extensive combat maneuver system.

 

[Micah Sweet]

the narrative is already there though, all Fighters share

1. unparalleled mastery with weapons and armor
2. a thorough knowledge of the skills of combat
3. acquainted with death
4. staring death defiantly in the face

now how can those four themes be translated into epic death defying abilities

Again, none of those things imply supernatural abilities. Some of the ideas people have had would work with this, but nothing supernatural. All of the classes that actually have supernatural/magical abilities have a narrative that explicitly supports it. The fighter should too.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Again, none of those things imply supernatural abilities. Some of the ideas people have had would work with this, but nothing supernatural. All of the classes that actually have supernatural/magical abilities have a narrative that explicitly supports it. The fighter should too.

This is simple stubborn defiance of fantasy.