How VTT Automation Exacerbates D&D Market Control

[Reynard]

PF2e is better supported on Foundry than DnD is......the main system tool is much better. Then there is an entire website with every rule and PC tools. I don't understand how this isn't at least as well supported as DnD....

We don't know the numbers for Foundry but it was extremely clear from the data we used to get quarterly that 5E was at least an order of magnitude more prevalent on both Roll20 and FG.

 

[Zaukrie]

We don't know the numbers for Foundry but it was extremely clear from the data we used to get quarterly that 5E was at least an order of magnitude more prevalent on both Roll20 and FG.

I'm not sure what this means? Yes, more people play 5e, but that doesn't say much about support. Wasn't this thread about support and online tools?

 

[Morrus]

Once you go Foundry you don't go back has been my experience. PF2 is not an easy game to forgo the automation. There are many an RPG that are tho. So, largely its going to rely on how heavy the ruleset is. Yes, naturally D&D is going to get a lion's share of the development. It is also difficult to go back to crank windows after having powered ones. For example, I find roll20 nearly intolerable now for a number of reasons.

Another point for Foundry is being able to do the work yourself, assuming you have the time and skill set to do this. I feel like Foundry will become the VTT set of the sleeve rollers. A lot of that work will roll down hill to folks who just want to use it. Though, you will need to be patient. Of course, many folks will just toss cash in the air and say "just automate me bro!"

That’s an odd response to the OP!

 

[Jd Smith1]

Maptool.

I'm willing to acknowledge that some automation can, sometimes, speed up a game--but in the end, so what? Unless the lack of it is making it slower than face to face, that doesn't make it a must-have to me.

(That said, for some games I'll use a dice roller or a couple other tools depending (dice rollers work really well for die-pool games, but I'm not sold they actually save any time at all for varied-polyhedra games)., but I don't consider them a necessity.)

I used MapTool on a LAN for a decade. Good stuff.

Why speed up a game? Because VTTs and tools eliminate drudgery, allowing the GM and players to focus on the actual play.

My group uses Roll20, plus Excel for the quartermaster's inventory, Discord for audio, most handouts, and private PMs (note-passing). It clears away drudgery and lets everyone focus.

But then, gaming online tends to have fewer distraction than F2F, particularly in the small talk.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not sure what this means? Yes, more people play 5e, but that doesn't say much about support. Wasn't this thread about support and online tools?

More people play 5E which means more people use it on VTTs which means more people provide 5E VTT support, professionally or as fans/hobbyists. it is pretty obvious by even a cursory look at VTT support that is available. That Foundry is popular with PF2E users does not actually mean anything in the context of the OP.

 

[CleverNickName]

I am currently trying to collect players for a PF2E campaign and have run into the problem where some potential players are balking because -- since I run games primarily on Fantasy Grounds -- PF2E does not enjoy the same automation support on that platform as 5E. This problem has happened with other games I have pitched, too (which is why I put this thread in General). Basically, because so many people play 5E, there are a lot of people honing the game's usability on FGU (and I presume other VTTs). That improves the VTT experience enough to create a barrier for entry for other games, even if they also have official support (examples include Pathfinder and Savage Worlds).

Note that I am talking about effort put in by the community, modders and such, not necessarily the companies themselves. I had a player, for example, who is otherwise all in to try PF2E refuse to do so on FGU because there is "no Rob Twohy" level of support. Don't get me wrong, that developer's automation for 5E is magical. But it bugs me that it has become necessary for so many players.

I feel your pain. I run a side-game of D&D using the old BECM/Rules Cyclopedia rules, and there just isn't a whole lot of support for that platform on any VTT. We squint and make it work with Roll20, since it's the platform we already use in my regular 5E D&D game, but it sure would be nice to have dedicated, ongoing, official VTT support for my favorite edition. "Good enough" is better than nothing, but it's still much less than "great."

I'm grateful for the modding community on Roll20.net, who have taken it upon themselves to build scripts, character sheets, and other resources into the Roll20 engine. They will never enjoy the time, resources, and popularity that 5E has, though. I doubt any game ever will.

 

[Zaukrie]

More people play 5E which means more people use it on VTTs which means more people provide 5E VTT support, professionally or as fans/hobbyists. it is pretty obvious by even a cursory look at VTT support that is available. That Foundry is popular with PF2E users does not actually mean anything in the context of the OP.

It is well supported there. Isn't that the point? Whether or not it is well supported?

Plus, Demiplane exists as a direct comparison to DnDBeyond.

 

[Reynard]

It is well supported there. Isn't that the point? Whether or not it is well supported?

Plus, Demiplane exists as a direct comparison to DnDBeyond.

Foundry isn't the only VTT. And I don't think it is the most popular, but we don't actually have any way to know unless everyone releases their user numbers.

Maybe I am not being clear. I am not saying that there is no place to play PF2E online with decent support. I am saying that in general when you try and get folks to play other games, in addition to all the usual problems of convincing them to do something other than 5E, you now have the added difficulty of "the VTT implementation isn't as good as D&D!" And it won't be, because more people are using and modding VTTs for 5E than any other system, by a wide margin.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, since I can do TotM while drinking, Zoom/Discord or whatever are better for me than any VTT could be.

I can’t DM while drinking. It just makes my ADHD worse, and it’s bad to begin with.

 

[Parmandur]

ToM or Grid while drinking, come on!

Sure, I started playing in College, so my experience with sober D&D is quite limited.