D&D (2024) Playtest 6 Survey is Open

[UngeheuerLich]

You...literally just stated that you did not watch it all. And your comments show that you did not watch it all. The entire segment addressing monks is only a few minutes long. Is it too much to ask you to watch all of it if you are going to offer opinions on it?

As I said: I watched it. I just stopped too early the first time, because he literally made a graphic where he compared apples with oranges.
I then watched it further, because you told me that he adresses the shadow monk later. He then says that the monk is ahead of the curve, at aboit 30 dps. Not high enough, but not below the curve. He also looks only at damage in a white room at metric.

I also watched the other video monk part 1 and part 2 before. So...

Also, for your convenience: I agree woth treant monks assertion that the monk needs an upgrade. I just think he was sloppy in this video.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You...literally just stated that you did not watch it all. And your comments show that you did not watch it all.

I added a screenshot...

 

[Remathilis]

No, it most certainly was not!

Smite spells I could see not making it past the post because it is a slight nerf and people tend not to like nerfs. Cunning Strike I will be astounded if it doesn’t make it in. It’s a big buff, and buffs always do well. It’s also expanding tactical options for a martial class in a similar manner to weapon masteries, which we know were extremely well-received.

Is smite as a spell going to make it? Probably not. It's a logical change they makes the other smite spells relevant, but comes with a slight drop in white room DPS so it will be hated. Is cunning strike? Honestly I don't know. I've seen a lot of praise for it, but I've seen people argue its OP. I am not confident any perceived loss in power (and that includes twin spell and "bag of temp HP" wild shape) will poll well. It's a bloody miracle weapon mastery and the -5/+10 feats haven't been reversed.

Maybe the results video and packet 7 will prove me wrong, but the 24 PHB really is just feeling like functional errata and Tasha style upgrades. Makes me wonder why they bothered with the playtest at all...

 

[Chaosmancer]

And I did not say he is wrong in general...
It is just, that looking at the bigger picture, and using less optimized builds, the difference is not that big.

So, the difference between and optimized monk and a non-optimized character is smaller than between an optimized monk and an optimized character. I am shook. I had no idea. Next you will tell me that a 9th level character is stronger than a 3rd level character.

Paladin nova was something where monks had problems to compete with, especially when starved for short rests.

Paladin nova was something EVERYONE had problems competing against. But again, you are the ONLY person talking about the 2014 Paladin Nova. No one else has even bothered to talk about it, because it is a non-factor in our discussion. All the presented numbers are non-Nova numbers. Yes, if we used the Nova numbers the gap would be bigger, but that isn't the gap we are talking about.

Advantage with GWM was not too hard to achieve for optimizers. Just look at this forum.

I agree that for non optimized white room analysis, the new GWM is better on average.

Sure, so optimizers are doing less, but NON-optimizers are doing more. And hey, the monk is doing worse against BOTH of them anyways.

But both changes reduce the big damage spikes from lets say: avenging paladin (who has an easy way to get advantage) which made monks feel very useless compared to.

And if this was what we were talking about, a bleeding edge DPR compared to the monk, you would have a point. But a Glory Paladin dual-wielding battleaxes ALSO was outperforming the monk. So who cares about the top tiers, we aren't even trying to get the monk TO that point.


Let's go over it again.

Levels 1 - 4: Monk damage is good, because they can make more attacks than anyone. However, they don't feel like monks because their ki is too low and they also suffer from low defenses which make it difficult for them to perform their role.

Levels 5 - 7: Monk damage is okay, but falling off. Ki and defenses still a problem.

Levels 8 through 10: Monk Damage is at least not bad, and Ki is less of a problem, but still scarce. Defenses still a struggle if in melee.

11 through 20: Monks finally get some defensive abilities, but their damage is laughable compared to basically everyone else.

And this isn't comparing them to bleeding edge optimization builds. This is just... basic stuff.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

@Chaosmancer

Ok, I have never seen math layed out to me that clearly. You are right. I am wrong. Are you happy? Can we stop now?

 

[Chaosmancer]

@Chaosmancer

Ok, I have never seen math layed out to me that clearly. You are right. I am wrong. Are you happy? Can we stop now?

If you wanted to stop discussing the monk, we could have stopped at any time. I wasn't chaining you to your desk to force you to respond.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If you wanted to stop discussing the monk, we could have stopped at any time. I wasn't chaining you to your desk to force you to respond.

But I really needed your point by point explanation to see clearly. So thank you.

 

[Parmandur]

but the 24 PHB really is just feeling like functional errata and Tasha style upgrades. Makes me wonder why they bothered with the playtest at all...

That's how they billed it from day one. And that explains the point of the playtest: to find out what errata and changes people wanted.

 

[MockingBird]

I know heroic inspiration is still a thing per the rules glossary but does anyone really use it? I playtested the inspiration on a 1 rule in my family game. I could care less about it all together, the kids remembered this particular rule. I forget about it until they let me know they have it when they roll a one so I just let it float.

 

[Kobold Stew]

We've not seen a revision of the human since last August, but then, every human got inspiration after every long rest. If they keep that, they are saying they want it to be a bigger part of play, in spite of what my play experience (and yours, evidently) suggests.

That's fine -- I'll still be playing humans. But it did feel a bit of a crowbar when it was introduced.