D&D Movie/TV D&D Movie Hit or Flop?

[Jaeger]

"Shenanigans" like dramatic increases in streaming revenue

For Who?

Do you have the Hard numbers for Revenue in dollars for D&D Honor Among Thieves.

The #1 movie VOD

What does that mean for Revenue in dollars?

The #1 movie Streaming

What does that mean for Revenue in dollars?

it's common knowledge studios only get around 50% average of the box office.

It's also common knowledge that they only get around 50% of VoD rentals.

We know that HaT Lost Money for Hasbro. The $25m dollar write down is a Fact.

If people are going to keep beating the 'muh Steaming' drum as being the saving grace for Honor Among Thieves; they need to start giving Hard Numbers in Dollars...

 

[bedir than]

Nobody is talking about the D&D franchise as a whole. Completely Irrelevant to this discussion.

This is about One Film: Honor Among Thieves.

The movies production budget debt had to be dealt with.

On the Hasbro side; HaT Lost Money.

IMO: If Hasbro didn't parse the $25m write down on HaT for the media to note; people here would point to the overall D&D revenue and still be saying that HaT "probably did well" for Hasbro...


As for Paramount - they have not parsed out any financial info for specific films other than Maverick's earnings. But...

We do know this:

Paramount Global Reports Mixed Q2 Results as Streaming Subscribers Hit 61 Million

The media conglomerate behind MTV and CBS reported an adjusted loss of 59 cents per share on revenue of $7.6 billion

www.thewrap.com

Paramount is losing revenue on films compared to last year.

Movies like HaT that flopped at the box office by not breaking even contributed to that.


As for Streaming:


Still hemorrhaging money; just not quite as fast as before.

So yes, maybe HaT is "doing well" on streaming.

But what do those metrics mean in terms of dollars earned?

The increase in streaming and VoD revenue is in this thread. Pushing the mythology that Honor Among Thieves hurt Paramount ignores what investors and Paramount have said.

 

[bedir than]

For Who?

Do you have the Hard numbers for Revenue in dollars for D&D Honor Among Thieves.




What does that mean for Revenue in dollars?




What does that mean for Revenue in dollars?




It's also common knowledge that they only get around 50% of VoD rentals.

We know that HaT Lost Money for Hasbro. The $25m dollar write down is a Fact.

If people are going to keep beating the 'muh Steaming' drum as being the saving grace for Honor Among Thieves; they need to start giving Hard Numbers in Dollars...

"It's common knowledge" but it's actually counterfactual. That number is wholly and completely invented by people don't generate revenue from VoD.

Additionally when you claim that there was no connected increase to WotC revenue related to Honor Among Thieves you are ignoring the data because you don't like it.
There was and is a clear connection to the increasing revenue for Hasbro connected to the movie. Their contract with Paramount made it clear that this was a key desire from the film, and mimics what they did with Transformers and GI Joe. Marketing professionals around the world have studied what Hasbro gained from these films, including from Honor Among Thieves while fans of Box Office Revenue only continue to discount it.

So a 25 million loss for eOne that results in nearly doubling franchise income for a quarter isn't a big deal.

 

[Zardnaar]

The increase in streaming and VoD revenue is in this thread. Pushing the mythology that Honor Among Thieves hurt Paramount ignores what investors and Paramount have said.

They're still burning money and none of that is HAT in particular.

We have more evidence it hasn't done well. No one's claiming it's a bad movie or isn't popular in streaming.

We also have sales data for PHB slight bump in sales but not 25 million worth.

There's no actual evidence it did well financially and a lot indicating it didn't. Flopped at box office, Hasbro lost millions, marginal increase in PHB sales, Paramount executive saying a sequel needs to be cheaper.

Outside a brief launch window it didn't have legs vs big hitters like Mario and number 1 on the 5th or 6th biggest streamer doesn't prove much.

 

[mamba]

So a 25 million loss for eOne that results in nearly doubling franchise income for a quarter isn't a big deal.

entirely depends on the quarterly income of the franchise, and how much of that is profit. Not saying it was not enough (but not by much I believe), just pointing it out.

 

[bedir than]

entirely depends on the quarterly income of the franchise, and how much of that is profit. Not saying it was not enough (but not by much I believe), just pointing it out.

Oh, for sure. And it matters about how long the tail is. One-time marketing expenses can't be a short burst or the marketing team loses their jobs.

 

[bedir than]

They're still burning money and none of that is HAT in particular.

This directly contradicts the quarterly report, Deadline's reporting and those that invest professionally.

We have more evidence it hasn't done well. No one's claiming it's a bad movie or isn't popular in streaming.

You have actually claimed that it's prolonged stay in the top 5 on streaming was meaningless

We also have sales data for PHB slight bump in sales but not 25 million worth.

This is a claim no one has made, so congrats on countering it. D&D the game was only up 10-15 million last quarter. D&D the franchise was up 74% without a revenue number attached. The franchise includes the Game, Licensing, the movie and future shows. Your narrow focus to extend the "flop" narrative is again contradictory to the data, to the professional investment class and the vetted legal statements of both production companies

 

[Zardnaar]

This directly contradicts the quarterly report, Deadline's reporting and those that invest professionally.

You have actually claimed that it's prolonged stay in the top 5 on streaming was meaningless

This is a claim no one has made, so congrats on countering it. D&D the game was only up 10-15 million last quarter. D&D the franchise was up 74% without a revenue number attached. The franchise includes the Game, Licensing, the movie and future shows. Your narrow focus to extend the "flop" narrative is again contradictory to the data, to the professional investment class and the vetted legal statements of both production companies

Well the professional report is still losing money hundreds of millions worth. They just lost less.

So you're taking that out of context.

Much like when you thought D&D overperforned week 1 while not realizing it's week 1 projections we're anemic for a movie of its budget.

Once again all the stuff you posted is essentially irrelevant to the bottom line. Doing well on streaming doesn't mean it's going to do well overall.

Pretty much every movie it out performance on streaming it also out performed at the office. It was up against a fairly anemic competition.

No one's claiming D&D brand overall is doing badly but stolen glory etc. Sales of recent adventures are down as well. I wouldn't blame HAT for that though.

 

[Jaeger]

Pushing the mythology that Honor Among Thieves hurt Paramount ignores what investors and Paramount have said.

Please provide the Honor Among Thieves streaming revenue numbers that show this assumption to be correct.

So a 25 million loss for eOne that results in nearly doubling franchise income for a quarter isn't a big deal.

You have no evidence to make this connection.

Please cite the hard numbers that empirically show this.

Hasbro did explicitly say that they did a $25m write down because HaT did not bring in the money they expected:

Hasbro took a $25 million write-down on Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves, which released March 31, due to lower-than-expected box office receipts.

WotC and Digital Gaming Down in Q2

And Hasbro Writes Off $25 Million on 'D&D' Movie

icv2.com

Now that we have more verifiable Facts. I fully expect the same go around that we have gotten at every stage since the numbers started to come in:

Week 1:
"HaT opening is rather soft considering its budget; it looks like it will flop at the Box Office."

"No it won't! It 'exceeded expectations' you are looking at the numbers wrong!"

Week 2:
"This week was not that great, the trend and metrics for these things show..."

"Traditional metrics don't apply because reasons. We don't have the all the Box Office numbers in yet; you are just making stuff up!"

Week 9:
"The Box Office numbers are in. HaT didn't so much as break even; it's a Box Office Flop."

"Ah Ha! Wrong! Streaming is the new hotness. That means it's impossible for it to be a Real Flop!"

Con't:
"HaT has around a $100million dollar hole to make-up. That's a lot of money to make up on the back end just to break even. It'll probably still lose money."

"Wrong again! Not only did it not flop, it's a Streaming hit! Look at all these Streaming charts that it is near or at the top of! It must be making heaps and heaps of money!"

Con't:
"You have no way of tying actual dollars earned to those streaming chart standings. You have no way of proving that it is breaking even, let alone turning a profit."

"Why are you asking me to prove my claims with actual revenue numbers? Why are you spreading the mythology that this film is still in the red?

This goes round and round for a while...

Some time later:
"Hasbro wrote down $25million on this film specifically because they didn't see the box office ticket sales they expected. We now have empirical proof that HaT Lost Money."

"More Mythology!!! Don't you know that $25million dollar write down due to low ticket sales actually helped D&D nearly double franchise income for Hasbro?

"Wait, What!?"

"And Stop asking me for the actual revenue numbers to prove my claims that HaT is on the path to break even and turn a profit on Streaming, because I will just keep ignoring them!"

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Okay at minimium DADHAT did poorly (but not awful) and in terms of easily quantifiable numbers the merch wasn't enough to make up for the loss. Let's not pretend Paramount is thrilled about it when they wanted it to be a billion dollar franchise.

BUT it did amazing in reviews with audiences and critics and did well on VOD and Streaming so its not a complete loss. It's cleaned the taint of D&D movies past at minimium and built a foundation they can build from long term.

They need a realistic budget, they need to figure out everything that went wrong with the otherwise well received movie, and clearly they need more gay bear on vampire elf sex/jk.

Honestly for now I'd focus more on anime like shows and movies like CR has, till they figure out where to go from here.

And dump the D&D from the name, it's a game system, not an actual setting itself, it just leads normies into thinking this just a D&D Jumanji. I still maintained it should have been called Forgotten Realms: Honor Among Thieves.

And maybe they should have targeted a more adult audience instead of family friendly.

And for the love of the Gods no emasculation none sense.

Heck maybe do an animated movie for BG3, look at how Spiderverse did, animated movie and make big money, and it's got a baked in fan base and voice actors all ready.