D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

• Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
• Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
• Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
• Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
• Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
• Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
• Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.

 

[Nikosandros]

It's the kind of thing that's appealing to designers, but no one in the room spent enough time thinking about how it would feel in actual play.

IMHO, if they really wanted to do something like that, they should have taken inspiration from Rolemaster and have class specific spell lists plus additional generic "realm" lists: channeling, essence and... err, I mean, arcane, divine and primal.

 

[Aldarc]

Lots of things feel good in other games but are too big of a change for existing D&D players.

See: 4E

I'm just talking about Pathfinder 2, Whizbang. It's not some other universe apart. It was an OGL game that many consider "basically D&D."

 

[DEFCON 1]

The wizard is one of my biggest classes but it takes up a huge amount of conceptual space, both narratively and mechanically. The fact that they get every non-divine spell, while the other classes get less spells, isn't a great decision in my mind. I think the wizard would be more interesting if it only learned one spell per level up instead of two, and if it had a list 2/3rd the size.

I might agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that despite the extensive spell list... it seems like everyone and their mother keeps saying the Wizard has only like 3 good spells at each level and which get taken time and time and time again such that everyone keeps complaining about them.

As soon as I see 25 different load-outs of Wizards getting talked about rather than the same Fire Bolt/Shield/Tiny Hut/Fireball/Polymorph/Simulacrum Wizard all the time (because that's the overpowered spell list that all these players can't help but glom onto because game mechanics trump personality or originality for most players)... maybe I'll feel differently.

 

[Charlaquin]

Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was.

Do the designers just not know how math works? I don’t understand how they could possibly think +1 damage is “mathematically one of the most powerful (weapon mastery) abilities.”

This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.

Unsurprising, but good to know, especially that it’s making it in for the half-casters.

• Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
• Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.

Cool, cool

• Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.

Aww, I liked the UA version of dragon wings.

• Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.

Oh, wow! I mean, I guess that makes sense, it was probably unnecessarily restrictive. I wonder what that will mean for the bard going forward.

• Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.

Thank the gods!!

• Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.

Alright, I guess.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

It's the kind of thing that's appealing to designers, but no one in the room spent enough time thinking about how it would feel in actual play.

It appealed to alot of other people too.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Lots of things feel good in other games but are too big of a change for existing D&D players.

See: 4E

I still feel like 4e was a bad edition as a whole, but had so many great ideas.

But WotC is a world renowned expert at throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Nope. It's because the bard

Spell component pouches are obsolete. All you need to abolish them is for the sorcerer to be able to use a part of themself as the spell focus.

As for the spells that require 50g gems no one is making you take those spells.

And why do you think sorcerers can't do anything at all that way with their own routes in if they try hard? This is the "the sorcerer must be a nerfed wizard" school of thought.

I agree that one way to implement the inherent casting is for the Sorcerer to use themselves as a focus. That works.

That does not solve mandatory object requirements. Narratively, how is a Sorcerer supposed to inherently manifest being able to cast Chromatic Orb if the game "balances" it with a costly component?

Sorcerer: On my next level, I choose Chromatic Orb for the flexibility.
DM: You become aware of that power in the cosmos, but you can't cast it until you find a material component you can focus it through.
Sorcerer: But my spells are inherent.
DM: TECHnically "inherent" is just flavor text. You still need to follow rules for material components, especially components that cost money. Because reasons.
Sorcerer: So if I choose Chromatic Orb and lose the gem, I can't cast it anymore?
DM: Correct.
Sorcerer: That's not inherent. It makes no sense.
DM: Them's the rules.

 

[Charlaquin]

So all the sound and fury about class specific spells is gone. That gives me little hope for paladin smite remaining a spell, viscous mockery is going back to a 1d4, and the sorcerer and wizard specific spells are gone.

How do you figure? Those spells could still be class exclusive.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

It's super weird that the DCC fighter has been right there for years and every other company hasn't quietly made their own version of Mighty Deeds of Arms.

Yeah, I thought it'd get copied all over the place, but it's still just DCC doing that...

 

[DEFCON 1]

The Bard picking their spell list was the single coolest thing in the whole playtest, if that is gone, I'm questioning whether the new PHB is worth bothering with.

Right now, of course it isn't. It wasn't worth it last year, and it won't be worth it six months from now either.

It will only be worth picking up when it is actually released 12 months from now and you can see the entire product in full, with every change made and every bit that remained the same. Then and only then will you know if it's worth buying.

Trying to make a determination right now is a waste of everyone's time.