D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Voadam]

I think any kind of nonmagical healing in D&D feels like it should be time consuming. You were almost dead a minute ago, surely you need to take it easy for a bit.

Depends on how you view hit points and what is being recovered.

A few minutes to get back in the zone after being thrown off your rhythm can work.

Almost dead can mean unwounded but so shaken you will not block the next lethal blow aimed at you as you normally would.

 

[Gammadoodler]

1) Since healing (bandaging, catching a breather, hydrating, getting a snack) is happening at the same time as recovering specific powers, I don't see a reason to consider them separately.
2) But if I did, I might consider them this way: a monk who fought their hardest and exceeded their normal limits 5 times! Or a battle master who fought their best fight and exceeded their normal limits several times!

I expect that even if a monk isn't burning their ki powers on flurry of blows, they're fighting their best fight all the time - dealing with the stress and toll on their body and mind. Then they tap their reserves to push themself farther. It's not just "oh, a chance to roll another attack <clatter clatter>" that we have operationalized as the game mechanics. It's a monk pushing themself to a higher level of performance to win a deadly fight.

They are fighting "their best fight" generally for less than 30 seconds are a time and the level to which they are "exceeding their limits" isn't that big..5 punches. That's it.

Their mystical reserves of spiritual energy harnessed through years of disciplined training is good for 5 extra punches an hour.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Depends on how you view hit points and what is being recovered.

A few minutes to get back in the zone after being thrown off your rhythm can work.

Almost dead can mean unwounded but so shaken you will not block the next lethal blow aimed at you as you normally would.

Sure. I'd be curious to know what percent of D&D players view HP this way. I suspect it's the minority, but could just be personal bias.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

You were almost dead a minute ago, surely you need to take it easy for a bit.

If you're going from almost dead to completely fine, I really do not see a gulf in believability between doing it in 5 minutes versus 60 minutes.

 

[Nikosandros]

I've always found that HPs work great for me in D&D... as long as I don't think too hard about them.

 

[billd91]

They are fighting "their best fight" generally for less than 30 seconds are a time and the level to which they are "exceeding their limits" isn't that big..5 punches. That's it.

Their mystical reserves of spiritual energy harnessed through years of disciplined training is good for 5 extra punches an hour.

I am reminded of a joke:

This guy owns a circus, and one day he's in there, checkin' out the big top and this scrawny little guy walks in the door. He walks over to the boss, and he says ''Are you the boss here?''
Guy says, ''Yeah. What do you want?''
He says, ''I'd like to join the circus. I got an act.''
The guy says, ''Oh, yeah? Well, let me see what it is.''

So this little guy goes over to the center pole and he starts climbing up the pole. And he goes all the way up. He climbs up and up and up. He goes all the way up to the very peak of the big top. And he looks down, and he takes a deep breath and he leaps off, and he starts flapping his arms. And he starts flying! And he flies all around the big top! He goes all the way around the place. He goes around the center pole. He goes loop-de-loop through the trapezes. Whooo! Whooo! Whooo! Then he gets all the way up and he takes a nosedive right down to the ground. Flapping his arms like mad. And he lands right next to the boss.

And he says, ''Well, what do ya think?''
The boss says, ''That's all you do? Bird imitations?''

The characters are exploring a hostile environment, danger may come on them at any second, they fight for their lives like heroes.
And along comes a guy "They fight for less than 30 seconds. And get 5 extra punches an hour."

 

[Pedantic]

If you're going from almost dead to completely fine, I really do not see a gulf in believability between doing it in 5 minutes versus 60 minutes.

Honestly, this whole discussion is enough to make me miss the CLW. Healing between encounters limited by a combination of wealth and availability is slightly more interesting than just "on a long rest."

Thinking about it, there kind of was a subtle "extra-long" rest in historical play modes, when you had more than one full day off because the cleric could burn their entire loadout on healing spells, and then reprepare before you went out again.

 

[Voadam]

Thinking about it, there kind of was a subtle "extra-long" rest in historical play modes, when you had more than one full day off because the cleric could burn their entire loadout on healing spells, and then reprepare before you went out again.

I remember it sometimes taking a couple days when we had one cleric and a big party.

Worst was healing up about 20 or so hp from unconscious when it was just two non clerics. "Three weeks I spent in that cave!"

 

[Celebrim]

Spell-like abilities, mostly. Check out what a 3.0 pit fiend can do in that regard versus what a 3.5 pit fiend can do; it's rather stark.

Admittedly, this is a very niche area, and one that doesn't apply to a lot of monsters, but for some reason it's always stood out very strongly in my mind. The 3.0 pit fiend can identify targets worthy of corruption via detect good, lure them into sin with suggestion, and defile holy sites with unhallow, etc. The 3.5 pit fiend is basically just a combat machine, though it at least kept the 1/year wish.

Ughh... Yeah, as someone who for various reasons stuck with 3.0e over 3.5e, I hadn't fully noticed just how bad the problem was already developing in 3.5e. Another strike against 3.5e.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think any kind of nonmagical healing in D&D feels like it should be time consuming. You were almost dead a minute ago, surely you need to take it easy for a bit.

I absolutely agree with this when it comes to popping up from zero hit points. Topping up from your upper range feels like an absolutely different thing, though! I call it the "Popping Up/Topping Up HP problem".

I'd prefer it if there were bigger consequences for dropping, but I understand why some people loathe the "death spiral".