D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

  • Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
  • Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
  • Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
  • Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
  • Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
  • Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
  • Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.


 

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EB was pegged to warlock level... It's no big deal if someone takes EB as long as it remains pegged to warlock level since they would never get past one blast.
That might be the only way they salvage EB, but I'm a lot less hopeful about Divine Smite remaining a spell and Viscous Mockery keeping at d6. (I'm highly skeptical of the sorcerer spells as well).

We'll see what the packet says, but I'm highly dubious...
 

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That is a very good point. Wizards have the most "dead levels" on their class chart in terms of class features than any other class except the druid (both tied with 8.) The varied types of spells are like the only "features" they get to be different from anyone else.
Learning a new spell is a class feature. Those aren't dead levels. It's also worth pointing out that every single one of those "dead" levels the wizard doesn't just gain a new spell but an entire new spell level - which is the strongest and most influential class feature that takes the most in the game, not excluding an extra feat/ASI.
 

Multiple modes are an illusion. No one designs a character to use a longsword two-handed on purpose. It is an emergency tactic that never happens. Flex makes the benefit happen 100% of the time, which is great.
Monks are a class that exist. A warrior class, even. And flex is the mastery attached to their most commonly used weapons, especially at low levels, quarterstaff and spear. Shouldn't it be designed so that they can benefit from it? But, as usual, let's proceed as if fighter is the only warrior class that exists.
Without Flex, a Champion Fighter is dealing:
1d8+Str at level 1, up to 4d8+4xStr at L20.
With Action Surge, it is 2d8+2xStr at level 2, up to 8d8+8xStr at level 20

With Flex, a Champion Fighter is dealing:
1d10+Str at level 1, up to 4d10+4xStr at L20.
With Action Surge, it is 2d10+2xStr at level 2, up to 8d10+8xStr at level 20

With both, the Champion gets critical hits on a 18-20, doubling the dice. Doubling d10s are better than doubling d8s.

That is GREAT when all those attacks are used against a single enemy. Especially with there being so many ways to get advantage in the game.

This is fine compared to the Battle Axe's ability to Topple, which can knock them prone once. If that Champion Axe Fighter has Weapon Adept at level 13 (able to have 2 masteries at once for his battle axe), and Topple is useless for every successive attack because the enemy is already prone and they have advantage for the rest of those attacks, is a Battle Axe Champion going to choose Graze over Flex in this situation? I would choose Flex every time.

Flex is FINE.
Well, let's math it out. We'll use a level 11 champion, and we'll create an opponent who has AC 18, which seems like a reasonable number for level 11, and +6 to their constitution save for when we test topple. This champion will have maxed strength, so they are at +9 to hit.

With flex, the math is pretty simple: 18.81 DPR without flex, 20.79 DPR with flex. Flex adds 2DPR. That's including critical damage on a 19-20 (the value of critical hit damage is VASTLY overestimated by most players; it's fun when it happens but when you math it out, critical hits don't actually affect DPR that much).

With topple, it becomes more complicated depending on when you hit and whether the creature makes its saving throw. Then, the benefit of topple depends on how many attacks are made on the target while prone. So we have to run some different scenarios.

Scenario 1: 1v1, fighter topples foe on first attack: 23.83 DPR - topple is slightly better than flex.

Scenario 2: 1v1, fighter topples foe on second attack: 21.53 DPR - about the same as flex.

Scenario 3: fighter topples foe on third attack, or fails to topple foe: 18.81 DPR - slightly worse than flex.

So in a 1v1 fight, flex is about the same as topple in terms of raw DPR, though the actual benefit of either is pretty small...when it comes to damage. However, flex gives zero tactical benefits, whereas having your opponent prone is obviously very tactically useful, and so I think any sensible player would take topple.

However.

D&D seldom comes down to 1v1 fights vs. the BBEG. Instead, we have to consider the advantage that the mastery gives to the entire party, and here it is no contest - the benefit of topple is magnified by the number of attacks made by the entire party, on top of the tactical advantage of having the opponent prone, whereas flex is just a small increase to your DPR (when you average everything out, especially the chance to hit, you'll find that flex adds about .7 DPR to each attack, and you can multiply that times as many attacks as the fighter, and only the fighter, makes - so in your best case, level 20 scenario above we are looking at about + 5.6 DPR on the action surge rounds, about +2.8 DPR normally). Even in a world in which you never miss and crit on an 18-20, flex only adds 1.15 to each attack. That just doesn't compare to what other masteries offer.

So when WotC talk about flex being mathematically strong, I think that is just not supported by the numbers. And, again, that's setting aside the fact that the warrior class who are mostly likely to be stuck with flex, monks, can't use it at all, so their mathematical advantage is zero.

Edit: Conclusion: Flex is bad. It offers a slight increase to DPR at best, no increase to DPR to the class most likely to be stuck with it, and zero tactical benefits. The player base is correct to give it a low rating.

Edit 2: fixed some math - topple is actually at least as good as flex 1v1, just in terms of DPR. Flex is even worse than I thought.
 
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That might be the only way they salvage EB, but I'm a lot less hopeful about Divine Smite remaining a spell and Viscous Mockery keeping at d6. (I'm highly skeptical of the sorcerer spells as well).

We'll see what the packet says, but I'm highly dubious...
Vicious Mockery might or might not stay at d6. But Divine Smite being a spell was yet more poorly thought out homogenisation that makes the game smaller, narrower, and less newbie friendly because it forces paladin players to engage with unnecessary spellcasting mechanics.
 

Vicious Mockery might or might not stay at d6. But Divine Smite being a spell was yet more poorly thought out homogenisation that makes the game smaller, narrower, and less newbie friendly because it forces paladin players to engage with unnecessary spellcasting mechanics.
Divine Smite being a spell arrowed the paladin toward the other smite spells which were akin to Cunning Action (exchanging power for status effects). Returning it back to 2014 will once again mean it will be disconnected from the rest of the smite effects and again be the tool of Hexadins who (thanks to pact magic returning) will nova through every fight.
 

One more thing to keep in mind about flex: weapon damage dice do not make that big a difference in DPR, especially as characters gain levels. Instead, most damage comes from sources like strength/dexterity, rage, magical bonuses, great weapon fighting, sneak attack, hunter's mark, and so on. So increasing the weapon damage die by +1 is never going to do much.

Edit: side note - why are we assuming that divine smite won't remain a bonus action spell? It wasn't mentioned in this debrief. I think that is one change that will likely stick - it makes a lot of sense, and when combined with changes to other smite spells makes the class more flexible and interesting. Super positive change for the class, IMO.
 

Losing the shared lists is a big loss I think. The frustrating part is that rather than admit bard/sorc/warlock can't be full casters with the full wizard list and a bunch of base class abilities they decided to throw out the whole concept without even doing something like cutting it by 2/3 & making the rest wizard or exclusive with specific subclass exceptions
par for the course at this point, anything that is more than cosmetics gets thrown out again
 



I bet the new art is going to be nice.*


* Provided the moratorium on AI art comes into effect.
Almost certainly yea. I hear that it was liked when they used that artwork back in 2014.
1691706191535.png
 

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