D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

There's probably been more discussion about non-magical healing and hit dice in this thread then there was when these mechanics were generated and published. I still can't believe that WotC is basically three gremlins in a trenchcoat competiting against each other while pretending to be a united front. It just makes so much sense when you think about shareholders saying D&D is being mismanaged, and when you think about how like Kate Welch left very strangely after her being brought on was such a big media push, and she only basically stewarded one project. Mearls not working on it, other big RPG designers not working on D&D, most of it being contracted out to freelancers...

How can I even justify debating what rules are good and bad anymore? At this point, the whole idea of playtesting itself seems like a joke by WotC. I mean, according to Ben, monster hit points got jacked up with no oversight at all in 4E right before going live. That's a huge change to make last second that heavily impacts the game, no playtesting, no discussion, just going live.

Nothing in D&D seems to be reflective of a coherent union of voices. It never has, and now we know why -- because WotC's design team is mismanaged, understaffed, and not all on the same page. Crazy. Wild. Insane. Hilarious, really.

The things yall say about the D&D Next playtest also prove this. Man. This is just so surreal to read. I guess I was just naive.
 

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The things yall say about the D&D Next playtest also prove this.
DnDNext was such a good time, when there was stuff like martials each getting their own resource in power dice, each with different ways to spend them, and the Sorcerer was imagined as someone whose bloodline manifested the more they spent their magic, so they start the day as a regular caster but end the day as a melee half-dragon...
 

I am reminded of a joke:



The characters are exploring a hostile environment, danger may come on them at any second, they fight for their lives like heroes.
And along comes a guy "They fight for less than 30 seconds. And get 5 extra punches an hour."
Good joke. It works in reverse as well.

As the ringmaster is interviewing potential acrobats, one of the candidates comes in, clucks a bit like a chicken, and does a convincing imitation of roosting on an egg.

The ringmaster responds with curiosity "That's very interesting but how does this qualify you to be an acrobat?"

To which the candidate replies "Well because I'm 'The Amazing Birdman' of course"
-----
A bunch of folks are exploring hostile environments, danger may come at any moment and they fight for their lives.

One of these folks can make 5 extra..
..punches...

..an hour..

..because they..

"Are perfect exemplars of spiritual discipline"
"Masters of the mystical energies that suffuse their bodies"

Or somesuch.
 

Spell-like abilities, mostly. Check out what a 3.0 pit fiend can do in that regard versus what a 3.5 pit fiend can do; it's rather stark.

Admittedly, this is a very niche area, and one that doesn't apply to a lot of monsters, but for some reason it's always stood out very strongly in my mind. The 3.0 pit fiend can identify targets worthy of corruption via detect good, lure them into sin with suggestion, and defile holy sites with unhallow, etc. The 3.5 pit fiend is basically just a combat machine, though it at least kept the 1/year wish.
I remember the days when powerful Fiends had a host of spell like abilities that were mostly there for flavor. Sure, a Marilith can use Animate Dead to crank out some zombies, but if you're fighting a Marilith, a zombie shouldn't be much of a threat to you (yes, yes, I know, you could come up with a trick or distraction using zombies, but really, this is a window dressing ability if a Marilith is just gated in to fight you).

On the one hand, you can use abilities like this to explain how a Marilith would take over a city or be a threat to more than just the PC's, but you don't really need a curated list of abilities. I remember a really nasty adventure in Dungeon where a red dragon has equipped fanatical kobold minions with beads from a Necklace of Fireballs to run up and suicide bomb the PC's. How did the dragon get all these Necklaces? Not important to the adventure.

If you want your Marilith to have an undead army, they have an undead army. There's any number of possible explanations that make sense for the campaign outside of "well they have animate dead as a power".

I'm not saying there's no value to such abilities, but when you load up a major enemy with spell like and psionic powers that it probably will never use, that's bloat. Like, I miss spellcasting dragons, but I fully admit that a lot of the time, casting a spell was inferior to the other options a dragon has to work with. Ditto with making sure everyone knows a Silver Dragon has an ability to take on a humanoid form. If that's important to the game, there's any number of reasons why they can do it, up to and including having it as a special ability if you decree they ought to.

If you want your dragon to have a labyrinth made with stone shape and walls of stone, it's not necessary to clutter up the stat block with such powers, you can just say "he's an Earth dragon/he's a prodigy/he made offerings to Tiamat/he's some kind of Dragon-Warlock".
 

I think any kind of nonmagical healing in D&D feels like it should be time consuming. You were almost dead a minute ago, surely you need to take it easy for a bit.
And at the same time those 1 HP almost dead people still act and fight the same as if they had 100 HP. Or maybe you dropped to 0, failed two death saves, got a cure light with a lousy roll, and now are at 4 HP, and, again, can act with full impunity as though nothing had happened. Pretty spry for an almost corpse! (Which might have even seemed more funny/weird under the old rules where 0 HP did equate to death rather than just unconsciousness.)

Of course, if HP really does equate to true health and wounds, well then we're back to the strange imagery noted in Gary's quote above.

Hmm, maybe we should rename HP to Heisenberg Points, because we never can know exactly what it represents... :)

(Joke aside, though, having stated it I think that is an excellent lens through which to view HP. It is all of those things in varying and even shifting amounts at different times.)
 

DnDNext was such a good time, when there was stuff like martials each getting their own resource in power dice, each with different ways to spend them, and the Sorcerer was imagined as someone whose bloodline manifested the more they spent their magic, so they start the day as a regular caster but end the day as a melee half-dragon...
I was so annoyed by the Next playtest. As much as I hated that they were just tossing 4e in a ravine and trying to get everyone to instantly stop playing it, I was willing to engage with the playtest to develop the next game. I ran every adventure, I filled out every survey.

I saw a lot of amazing, interesting ideas, none of which made it into the final product, without any real explanation as to why other than "oh not enough people liked it". Even after the PHB was out, this sort of nonsense continued.

Who remembers the Playtest Ranger from UA? Completely redesigned, even approved to be played for one season in Adventurer's League. I never heard anyone say anything bad about it (other than the old school 2HD at level 1, lol), a lot of people liked it...and it never materialized. Anywhere.

The whole thing just vanished into the aether, as near as I could tell.

The whole thing left me wondering if anyone at WotC really cared about their playerbase at all.
 

I made sure to attend Ben Riggs' seminar about the rise and fall of D&D 4E while I was at Gen Con. While it's been nearly a week since then (the seminar having happened Thursday afternoon), my memory isn't quite so bad that I can't recall the bulk of the salient points discussed there.

Now, I've mentioned before that I don't care much for Riggs' writing style. While he does good work, and his current book is absolutely worth reading, he unnecessarily damages his own credibility by openly presenting his own biases and opinions with regards to the people he's writing about (in what I presume is an effort to sensationalize his writing, as opposed to presenting a "dry" history), rather than checking them to the best of his ability.

Having said that, in a more informal context (and with the added caveat that his research into 4E is still preliminary, something he highlighted multiple times in this seminar) he's a lot of fun to listen to, and the underlying data points are still very interesting on their own. To that end, what follows is a basic overview of what Riggs' presented.
  • According to a chart he put up, the AD&D 1st Edition Players Handbook sold 1.5 million copies. The AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Handbook (including the revised version, which he says sold almost nothing) sold 1 million copies. The D&D 3.0 Player's Handbook sold just shy of 370,000 copies, while the 3.5 PHB sold a little over 300,000 copies.
  • Here, Riggs stressed that the 3.0 and 3.5 numbers were particularly unreliable, because they only covered January of 2001 through December of 2006. That left off not only the initial sales of 3.0 (which was released in the summer of 2000, and here Riggs noted that Ryan Dancey had told him that if that time period was included, it would have almost doubled the sales numbers for the 3.0 PHB) but also any lingering sales of the 3.5 PHB.
  • So why were the numbers for 3.X so much lower than even 2E? According to him, the Hasbro execs were of the opinion that it was because World of Warcraft (which released in late 2004) was eating their lunch. They saw an explosive phenomenon, according to the people Riggs interviewed, that was essentially the same as D&D except in a computerized form, and wanted to get that crowd back to the tabletop. So they handed down a directive to start work on a new edition that would draw the WoW crowd to them (which, Riggs noted, was a major mistake).
  • According to his sources, the early versions of 4E were wildly different from not only what we eventually saw, but anything that had come before. Things like your damage dealt depending on if you rolled an odd number or an even one, etc. A lot of these were rolled back later on, but one thing that stayed popular from the get-go was the idea of implementing "cooldown" periods for powers. This eventually became the AED part of the AEDU suites of abilities.
  • Stephen Radney-McFarland was cited as a strong opponent of 4E's WoW-centric development early on. He raised a lot of flags which were ignored, and the one that was most heavily noted was the fact that a magic missile could potentially miss an enemy. According to Riggs, Radney-McFarland pointed to that as something their core audience would rally around as being emblematic of the changes that they hated.
  • He also noted that Radney-McFarland ran a playtest for Jason Bulmahn, who was aghast at having magic missiles that could miss. "That was the moment Pathfinder was born," noted Riggs.
  • Riggs also cited Gleemax as being a terrible idea that never lived up to its implementation (he also said that the infamous murder-suicide that happened on the Gleemax team had nothing to do with that). One of its biggest failings, according to him, was that it allowed players to pay for a single month's subscription, go in and download all of the 4E material that WotC had published to date, and then cancel their account, giving them legal ways to use 4E for just a small surcharge without ever buying a book.
  • At that point, Riggs noted that the 4E PHB sold far less than the 3E PHBs.
  • Riggs also spent a lot of time talking about how there was (and still is) a lot of internal politics that goes on with regard to WotC. He cites the company as having no single authority (where D&D is concerned), and that there are factions within the company that are engaged in power struggles to get their respective visions implemented (according to one of his sources, the word "Machiavellian" was used). The pro-OGL and anti-OGL factions are just two of them, and he compared and contrasted the disastrous 4E GSL to what happened this January with the OGL 1.1 fiasco.
  • Another example that he uncovered with regard to internal politics was that, right before the 4E Monster Manual went to the printer, someone on the management team (he didn't say who) looked at the book, decided that the monsters' hit points were too low, and raised them all. There was no oversight, no review, no playtesting (in fact, the lack of any sort of organized playtesting for 4E among their fan-base was another point that was brought up), and the result was that a lot of fights against monsters early in 4E's life felt like a slog.
One final note of interest: Riggs mentioned that he couldn't get anyone to talk to him about what's going on with One D&D, but that it seems emblematic of WotC still having a culture of warring factions. His big example there was how Mike Mearls, who wrote the 5E PHB (which according to Riggs' estimate has sold at least 3 million copies, if not more), is currently working on Magic: the Gathering instead of D&D. John Tynes, who wrote three of the top six best RPGs according to RPG.net, is also currently working on M:tG and not role-playing games. "Something," Riggs noted, "is rotten at Wizards of the Coast."

Time will tell if he's right.
And yet no numbers, just smoke...
 

Who remembers the Playtest Ranger from UA? Completely redesigned, even approved to be played for one season in Adventurer's League. I never heard anyone say anything bad about it (other than the old school 2HD at level 1, lol), a lot of people liked it...and it never materialized. AnAnywhere.
I thought that ranger ended up in Tashas? Unless you're talking about another ranger UA.
 


I thought that ranger ended up in Tashas? Unless you're talking about another ranger UA.

The Revised Ranger​

  • 2d6 HD per level.
  • No more medium armor proficiency, emphasizing Dex builds and the Stealth skill.
  • Dexterity and Wisdom saving throw proficiency.
  • No change to the skill list, but they gain proficiency with the herbalism kit.
  • Ambuscade grants an action to Attack or Hide prior to all other actions, when you roll initiative.
  • Natural Explorer is unchanged.
  • Fighting Style is unchanged.
  • Skirmisher’s Stealth is a feature to make the ranger’s Stealth work better than anyone else’s – specifically, they can leave hiding, stab someone, and return to hiding without the chosen target actually seeing them.
  • Primeval Awareness is unchanged.
  • Ability Score Improvement and Extra Attack are right where you’d expect.
  • The Revised Ranger’s subclasses are Spirit Paths.
    • The Guardian is a brown bear when summoned, and it grants temporary hit points once per short rest.
    • The Seeker is a giant eagle when summoned, and its invocation option grants everyone in your party advantage against the target creature until the end of your next turn. This could be a mighty lot of punishment. (Admittedly, faerie fire is also a good way to accomplish this effect, and for a longer duration.)
    • The Stalker is a dire wolf when summoned, and when invoked it grants a damage boost on one attack.
 

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