D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

• Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
• Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
• Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
• Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
• Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
• Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
• Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think we need to be careful about jumping to conclusions and over-extrapolating. WotC will know that this feature for bards was received very positively, so let's wait and see whether they figure out how to keep it in a world of class spell lists.

If it was, in fact, received positively, that is. I know it was generally well-received here but the record has clearly shown that we here are not a good barometer for the fandom at large’s tastes. I could certainly see people feeling like the bard getting access to all Spell lists steps too much on the wizard’s toes as the class that’s supposed to have the biggest spell list.

For example, what if they provide a small list of bard spells, and let bards choose a second class list in which to specialize?

That would be pretty cool.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

There's way too many of the same spells on way too many classes' spell lists. I wish they'd at least cut down on that. Do something with the class lists, actually make them unique.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I know many people are ok and satisfied with that, and good for them. I'll never apologize for wanting fresh experiences.

And you have no need to apologize for feeling that way-- we're at the point in the game's lifespan where we normally would have been getting a whole new edition that changes a lot of ideas that lay upon the game's foundation, so you aren't alone in feeling 5E is perhaps stale and a new edition with new ideas is time to arrive.

But of course... there are just as many people who aren't ready to move on from 5E-- in fact they'd happily continue to play 5E14 even if a new revision never came out. Just like all the Pathfinder players stuck with ostensibly "3.5" when many others moved onto 4E. That's always going to be the collision between all players-- those that are bored with the game as-is and those that aren't.

 

[Charlaquin]

They had the solution for this problem in playtest 2, which was to limit non-wizard classes by school. They could still go back to that and keep the unified spell lists.

Clearly that was poorly received, since it didn’t make it past packet 2.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Cut the Arcane spell list and give wizards access to a wizard only list.

Eh I’d like to have both class lists and arcane divine and primal spell tags, so things can reference a tag, a school, or a class list.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I could certainly see people feeling like the bard getting access to all Spell lists steps too much on the wizard’s toes

Not just Wizard toes, as I felt that Bard + Primal made for a far better Ranger...

Bard being a full caster is the problem, if they also get their choice of everything else.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Clearly that was poorly received, since it didn’t make it past packet 2.

Agreed, and I’d also love to have some spells not on any class list, instead only available to a species or with a feat or as an alternate reward.

 

[Remathilis]

Who’s we? As far as I can tell, it’s just @Remathilis who’s assuming that, because they were so disappointed about the loss of unified subclass progression that they’re now assuming no changes are going to stick.

So far, most of the changes I've thought were good were rolled back:

Unified Subclass progression
Druid Wild Shape Templates
Warlock Spellcasting
Unified Spell Lists
Epic Boons at level 20
Dual Wielding not needing a bonus action
Short Rest recharges becoming Prof/day uses

So, I've adopted the cynical take: any remotely controversial is going to revert back to 2014 and Paladin Smite as a spell was controversial. For the most part, the only major changes I would safely bet survives to the actual PHB are floating ASI, level 1 feats, and weapon mastery.

 

[Parmandur]

So far, most of the changes I've thought were good were rolled back:

Unified Subclass progression
Druid Wild Shape Templates
Warlock Spellcasting
Unified Spell Lists
Epic Boons at level 20
Dual Wielding not needing a bonus action
Short Rest recharges becoming Prof/day uses

So, I've adopted the cynical take: any remotely controversial is going to revert back to 2014 and Paladin Smite as a spell was controversial. For the most part, the only major changes I would safely bet survives to the actual PHB are floating ASI, level 1 feats, and weapon mastery.

The Sorcerer and Wizard Spells seem to have been received well, even if people wanted then on a Class Spell list. Smite as a Spell might make it yet.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Edit 2: fixed some math - topple is actually at least as good as flex 1v1, just in terms of DPR. Flex is even worse than I thought.

Topple gives nothing if one of the Fighter's allies already gave them advantage using one of their abilities like knocking the enemy prone.

I'm saying that there are are all kinds of variant situations that give one ability an edge over the other. And Flex is valid. Mechanically. And the designers know it. Can you not imagine why they think that? Or are you assuming there is no valid answer? Or rather than argue mechanics that vary based on situation, do you just really not like it because it is too simple, and boring?

If mechanical semantics is your game, we can debate the intricacies of why certain weapons that are 1 damage die step higher are way better than their lesser. People use a d6 weapon over a d4 weapon every day. (No I don't want to debate those intricacies, but it shows the exact reason why Flex isn't boring to me. I like it. It is designed for people like me. I like increased die sizes.)