D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

• Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
• Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
• Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
• Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
• Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
• Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
• Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.

 

[Eubani]

The designers completely ignored the Fighter's out of combat agency issues once again. The Fighter still sacrifices all out of combat ability for nothing of worth.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

They could fit Fighter out-of-combat options into the theme of the Fighter subclasses...

We already have Rune Knight being neat for some secondary skills (getting advantage is unique)... and, I guess, Banneret getting Persuasion expertise at lv7 (which on the other hand is too late to wait for, on a stat that's meaningless to their class, and is the exact same thing a Bard does better).

 

[Remathilis]

Or they think it doesn't suck and maybe there is a way to express your opinion while not crapping on other people's preferences at the same time?

You must be new here?


While it's not the way I would have gone (the way I would have gone would probably require 5.5 or 6e) I do feel the new fighter was a decent start. It needs some better exploration and social pillars support, but it's the best we'll be getting considering the need to be backwards compatible.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The designers completely ignored the Fighter's out of combat agency issues once again. The Fighter still sacrifices all out of combat ability for nothing of worth.

Maybe you have something else in mind (in which case the following comments will not apply to you and feel free to ignore.) But for everyone else...

...the answer I always seem to hear from people about "solving" the Fighter's out of combat agency is to just "give them more skills." Which I'm sorry, does not in any way do what they say it does. Gaining an additional 2 points (from prof bonus) to a couple more skills does not in any way make this grand marked change to what Fighters can now do out of combat. Especially considering those points will probably end up having to go to skills where the Fighter already has lower ability modifiers, which means they will still remain under other members of the party with those skills. The Fighter goes from a +1 to Insight to +3. Great. Meanwhile the Cleric has a +5 to Insight and is still the party's lie detector. So what did those two skills really end up gaining the Fighter for OOC agency? In Insight's case, a 10% bonus on the chance when they find themselves all alone having to determine someone's honesty and not being able to rely on the Cleric. They need to be by themselves in 10 different scenes for one of those scenes to become a success that wouldn't have been previously because they now have the skill. As far as I'm concerned... having a couple more skills did not in any way actually change the Fighter's out of combat paradigm.

And also in truth, even for those players who think extra skills DO solve the Fighter's OOC issues... the problem has actually been solved already and most people don't even realize it. WotC made extra skills available to players who actually think it's truly important by giving Fighters an additional feat slot at 6th level, which means they can take the Skilled feat and get THREE more skill proficiencies if they really wanted to. If Fighter players want more proficient skills without even having to "lose out" to other classes in the standardized ASI/Feat system at 4th/8th/12th/etc... they can take Skilled at 6th level and get whatever they feel they need.

But how many Fighter players ever actually do that? I'll bet you virtually none. Because when push comes to shove, none of those Fighter players actually care that much about "out of combat agency" when they instead can just be better at beating people up. They'll use their free ASI/Feat to either boost STR again, or get another combat ability.

So what we end up with is some people wanting WotC to FORCE Fighter players to have more supposed "out of combat agency" by not giving them a choice in the matter and have 2 skills given to them automatically as class features. And the reason I suspect they want that is because they know in their heart-of-hearts that Fighters being "better out of combat" is merely an aspirational ideal that would "make the game better"... but in reality they (and everyone else) know almost no one actually gives much of a darn about it.

 

[Eubani]

There is always at least one that thinks that an ASI will fix the Fighter's issues, no matter how many times it gets debunked.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

But how many Fighter players ever actually do that? I'll bet you virtually none. Because when push comes to shove, none of those Fighter players actually care that much about "out of combat agency" when they instead can just be better at beating people up. They'll use their free ASI/Feat to either boost STR again, or get another combat ability.

Wait... you just said that a few points in an already bad skill value wouldn't matter... but then you blame the Fighter players for not wasting their extra feat on a performative skill pick?

 

[tetrasodium]

Wait... you just said that a few points in an already bad skill value wouldn't matter... but then you blame the Fighter players for not wasting their extra feat on a performative skill pick?

No I think what was said is a little bit different and that if so I agree. The bold bit is correct. However if a player feels like those points are going to be the placebo that makes them happy they can already take the skilled feat... They just never do because iit won't matter when they want to maximize for combat.

edit: IoW the skills call itself is just a distraction used as a wedge to make more demands

 

[Horwath]

No I think what was said is a little bit different and that if so I agree. The bold bit is correct. However if a player feels like those points are going to be the placebo that makes them happy they can already take the skilled feat... They just never do because iit won't matter when they want to maximize for combat.

no fighter will ever take Skilled feat as it is bad.
If it were not, they would not introduce the Skilled expert feat as a replacement.

And I have seen fighters with Skill expert feat.
You can still boost your primary attack stat and get little skill bonus to your character.

 

[Mistwell]

You must be new here?

I mean, @Vaalingrade doesn't usually attribute a bad motive to people who view the game differently than he does.

 

[DEFCON 1]

no fighter will ever take Skilled feat as it is bad.
If it were not, they would not introduce the Skilled expert feat as a replacement.

And I have seen fighters with Skill expert feat.
You can still boost your primary attack stat and get little skill bonus to your character.

Skilled or Skill Expert, the point is the same-- Fighter players who want more "out of combat" opportunities via the Ability Check and Skill system have it available to them at 6th level. Whether they want three skills, or a +1 mod / one skill / one Expertise... they can get it if they really want it.