D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Laurefindel]

The 6-8 encounters per day thing. I can nickpick on a few other things such as specific spells and two-weapon fighting, but the encounter expectation affects allotment and regeneration of abilities on a more fondamental level.

Another issue I have with 5e is how anything that is mildly supernatural has to be a spell. I understand the desire to produce a universal metric and consolidate all powers in one section of the book but it has been overdone IMO.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Muktickass rules are kinda a hot mess due to class design.

When was the last time they were actually good 2E?

4e.

4e multiclassing is very consistent. You should always take one multiclass feat unless you literally can't spare one. You should (almost) never paragon multiclass, because it sucks. Hybrids have a few basic rules (have at least one stat shared between your classes, pick two classes of different roles in most cases, keep in mind what benefits you can get via feats, e.g. Hybrid Paladin can take a single feat to get Plate prof.)

Taking 1 MC feat is always good. Two is a sometimes food. Three+ and PMC, inadvisable.

Plus, feat-based MC isn't too far off from 2e's Dual-Classing, just skipping the "re-level through 8 levels of the new class" part, and Hybrids are straight-up 2e dual-classing with better balance.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I'm afraid I'd much rather have a single alphabetical listing than anything else - if I need to know which level/class/whatever the spell applies to before I can start looking it up, that's a problem IMO.

5e has universal spell levels, there is no reason not to factor them into organization.

Why do people look up spells?

A) to prepare/learn spells: you want spells clustered by level so that you don't need to flip through 95% of the spell list to get from Animal Friendship to Unseen Servant at 1st level. This is how you get people unwilling to play casters because it's hard.

B) check exact wording of a spell - you should already know the level so level + alphabet organization is no impediment.

That first scenario happens a lot. Clerics, paladins & wizards preparing spells for special circumstances and every time every spell casting class levels.

The second one doesn't happen a lot and when it does, player casters have their spell list by level as do pregen adventures so again, no impediment. The only time level might not be noted is a homebrew.

You don't make life hard for 65% of players just to save the sloppy 1% from themselves when adding "(4th)" to their notes will fix the issue.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Another issue I have with 5e is how anything that is mildly supernatural has to be a spell. I understand the desire to produce a universal metric and consolidate all powers in one section of the book but it has been overdone IMO.

In 5e, if it's not a spell, Counterspell can't block it, Dispel Magic can't dispel it, feats like Mage Slayer don't trigger, and some Paladin Auras don't protect from it. Most things should be spells because "spells" are the default form of magic and everything else is weird and poorly defined.

The alternative is some form of well-defined not-spell magic which goes back to 3e's Extraordinary, Supernatural and Spell-Like classifications. (which I personally liked)

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

When was the last time they were actually good 2E?

Seeing 5e mimic the 3e-style fighter2/bard4/draconicdisciple6/rogue1 mess does make me long for the simplicity of 'hey, I want to be a fighter/wizard, so I am committing to being them equally'.

Just no dual-classing pls. Or non-humans only able to be higher-level as Thieves...

 

[Oofta]

Some of the things have easy fixes. If the group has too much gold, don't hand out as much gold. Shocking I know. The gold coin standard (it should have been silver all along) has always been with us. Similar with the number of encounters, I use the gritty rest rules and simply don't set up scenarios where they can take a long rest every time they want one.

My complaints are different

• Lack of prices for magic items in the DMG. Make clear it's optional but for those of us who want it, and want to give people something to spend their gold on.
• More high level monsters that are not liches (there's at least a half dozen copy/pastes of the lich with a different label) that are also not huge or larger. A monster shouldn't have to be the size of a 747 to be scary.
• There are some spells that are just boring. Things like counterspell, banish, even some low level spells like heat metal.
• The layout of the DMG is pretty bad, they spend way too much page count on things like the planes which could really be it's own separate book on world building.
• Minimal support for high level campaigns.
• The wording is so clunky sometimes. Take the Sculpt Spell ability for evocation spells: "The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save." Instead of something simple like "Evocation spells don't damage creatures you choose."
• The monster design section in the DMG doesn't seem to match any of the monsters published in any book.

The problem is that a lot of the issues were baked into D&D decades ago, so there's not going to be radical changes across the board. Fixing the assumption of number of fights between long rests is too baked in now to make a difference. I'm not sure it would help anyway.

My suggestions, which are mostly things to add to the DMG (and one MM):

• Give us a better optional resting system. Perhaps something along the lines of arcane recovery for all classes that rely on long rest recovery. Give people something back after an overnight rest, just not everything.
• Give guidance on how to balance out magical items and gold. If you aren't building keeps, you don't need as much gold. This should only be a general guideline since every campaign is different, I don't want a repeat of "You should have +X items at level Y".
• Betters support for high level campaigns by providing guidelines for creating higher level PCs. Goes hand-in-hand with the previous point.
• Some high level humanoids NPCs in the MM that aren't liches. Heck, throw us a bone and have some that are not dedicated spellcasters. I just did an upgraded lord of blades for my 20th level game, it worked just fine with only a couple of spells reflavored as supernatural powers.

I'm sure I'd have more if I thought about it more. Unfortunately there is no such thing as perfect design and the 5 minute work day has pretty much always been with us.

 

[billd91]

The True Issue with 5E is that it is not the Dungeons & Dragons game everybody wants.

Of course, there's never been a version of D&D everybody has wanted, so that issue is not unique to 5E.

And when you consider that a lot of the other issues people bring up are shared by various subsets of players and not everyone, it becomes clear...
the True Issue with D&D is the players.

 

[delericho]

5e has universal spell levels, there is no reason not to factor them into organization.

Why do people look up spells?

Mostly I look them up because they're referenced in a monster description or a magic item. In neither case do they reliably include the level.

 

[aco175]

Two words: Font size.

I agree with this one. Remember the 3e Dragon issues with the white lettering on black or red background. Terrible- and that was when I wore a younger man's eyes. I would think that printed books are going to be bought by older players for the most part and saving page count does not help.

I would buy a larger print book. I'm not talking about the library, blind people books, but something with a little kick. I'll even skip all the artwork if that helps.

 

[Oofta]

And when you consider that a lot of the other issues people bring up are shared by various subsets of players and not everyone, it becomes clear...
the True Issue with D&D is the players.

It's not the journey that matters, it's the friends enemies you make along the way?