D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[mamba]

Why should a spelljammer DM have to buy Ghost of Saltmarsh for ship mechanics?

they don't have to

Part of Appendix A of GoS should have been ported over and upgraded for Jamme

that is what they did

 

[Minigiant]

You’re far luckier than I. I’ve tried a bunch of different systems with multiple groups and players and none of them have remotely worked.

It’s been my white whale of gaming since the 2e days.

I think the key to my success with almost any game system insert is to make it just like D&D.

The Pilot makes the ship Dash or Dodge or Melee attack.
The Gunner teams Attack with the cannons.
The Bosun and Quartermaster Use an Object to heal or rescue crew.
Casters can cast spells that affect boats.

Nothing too complex. It's just like D&D.

 

[Hussar]

I think the key to my success with almost any game system insert is to make it just like D&D.

The Pilot makes the ship Dash or Dodge or Melee attack.
The Gunner teams Attack with the cannons.
The Bosun and Quartermaster Use an Object to heal or rescue crew.
Casters can cast spells that affect boats.

Nothing too complex. It's just like D&D.

Thing is, my players have always balked at this. They claim they want to use their character which isn’t “use an object” etc.

Look I’m totally on board. I’ve tried over and over again.

The players are so against it that once they automatically started selling the ship. Another time the player who started the campaign as the captain retired his character rather than be on a ship.

Those two events are nearly twenty years apart btw.

So far this group has worked. It works because I completely rejected ship to ship combat.

Although funnily enough, there has been some low level grumbling about not being able to shoot between ships.

headdesk

 

[Micah Sweet]

Thing is, my players have always balked at this. They claim they want to use their character which isn’t “use an object” etc.

Look I’m totally on board. I’ve tried over and over again.

The players are so against it that once they automatically started selling the ship. Another time the player who started the campaign as the captain retired his character rather than be on a ship.

Those two events are nearly twenty years apart btw.

So far this group has worked. It works because I completely rejected ship to ship combat.

Although funnily enough, there has been some low level grumbling about not being able to shoot between ships.

headdesk

I really do sympathize, but I feel like this is not so typical a situation that it necessarily follows such more detailed rules simply shouldn't be present.

 

[Hussar]

I really do sympathize, but I feel like this is not so typical a situation that it necessarily follows such more detailed rules simply shouldn't be present.

Well at a guess I would argue that this is why they aren’t doing more detailed rules. They would probably know better than you or I what their customers want.

Let’s be fair here. DnD in any edition has not had good ship combat rules.

The biggest problem is scale. DnD is terrible when you have 20-30 combatants. Over 100? Sure that’s not too bad. You can abstract a lot into mass combat rules. But 20-60? It just doesn’t work worth’s damn.

 

[teitan]

A faulty assumption.

It’s exactly my experience.

 

[teitan]

Magic items aren't required for combat.

Magic items or some other variant rule is required for noncombat if you roll in noncombat.

Rolling in noncombat is a valid playstyle.

You done lost me.

 

[Minigiant]

You done lost me.

Multiple classes were designed to not have good mental scores, noncombat skills, exploration features, nor social features.

Classic D&D was designed to get these classes access to magic items to enter these challenges.

5e follows that paradigm but says you don't need to.

The human champion fighter or dwarf berserker barbarian or elf hunter ranger were designed to have +0 Charisma modifier with no skill bonus. The system is supposed to get them a magic item that increases that modifier or changes their access in social situations.

 

[Minigiant]

Thing is, my players have always balked at this. They claim they want to use their character which isn’t “use an object” etc

That is the trick.

You let them use their character sheets.

If the character wants to shoot a cannon, they shoot the cannon. They roll their Strength or Dexterity to shoot the cannon.

They stay within the game as D&D. And play as D&D.

 

[Hussar]

That is the trick.

You let them use their character sheets.

If the character wants to shoot a cannon, they shoot the cannon. They roll their Strength or Dexterity to shoot the cannon.

They stay within the game as D&D. And play as D&D.

The push back I got was, “why is my swordsman shooting a cannon? Shooting a cannon has nothing to do with my concept”

Replace “cannon” with every other part of crewing a ship and it’s the same.

Honestly I think this is why 5e has the ship combat rules it has. Players have strong concepts of what their character should be doing and pushing them outside of that box results in players checking out of the game.

I kinda see their point even if it’s not one I share. But since that is their stance, it doesn’t really matter what mechanics I use. The mechanics aren’t the issue.

So, as I said, I’ve completely abandoned the ship combat system and start ship combat at the point of boarding.