D&D (2024) The new warlock (Packet 7)

[WanderingMystic]

To be honest if they did something like this and then maybe another invocation that made your ritually take only 1 minute or just usable at will outside of combat then every problem I might have had with the warlock would be fixed.

 

[Charlaquin]

I love this idea but I would open it up a bit more so that it was on par with Thirsting Blade so maybe more like this.

Learned Tome
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pack of the Tome
The eldrtich knoweldge granted by your tome increases, granting you a 2nd level spell slot. In addition you may att 1 2nd level spell from any class list into your tome. At level 11 you gain a 3rd level spell slot and a second spell of up to 3rd level is inscribed in the book.

I like the 2nd level slot at 5th level and 3rd level slot at 11th level, but because you can change out the spells in the tome every time you summon it, which you can do on a short or long rest, this would effectively be expanding the warlock spell list to include every 2nd and 3rd level spell in the game! (though admittedly you could only “prepare” one of each level at a time, but you can also do so on any short or long rest). I’d say follow the pattern established in the initial Pact of the Tome feature and have it add two spells to the book at each new level, but they can only be ritual spells.

I also think you could get away with increasing the number of slots, since unlike Pact Magic slots they only recover on a long rest. Maybe in addition to gaining one 2nd level slot at 5th, you gain an additional 1st level slot. Then at 11th, you get another 1st level slot, another 2nd level slot, and one 3rd level slot. That would kinda mimic half-caster progression, but limited to spells with the ritual tag. And of course, you could still use those slots on your Warlock spells.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Fighters & Monks can choose between being built as STR forward or DEX forward. I'd like to see that versatility expanded so that there can be STR based Rogues, DEX based Barbarians. Further, I'd like to see Spellcasters allowed to pick between two mental abilities, such as INT for Warlocks or WIS for Wizards. This would significantly increase the variety of characters that we'd see, in particular when it comes to skills that they are good at. A back-line Cleric who uses INT as a prime (and spellcasting) ability, would actually be very good at Religion!

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

Oh even better! Goodbye to all STR Paladins. You are made fools by this Feat.

And I, for one, will still be rolling Strength based paladins, while laughing the entire time as the DM of people who think making parties with all Dex and Cha characters is a great idea right up until they meet their true archnemeses: stuck doors, puzzles that require strength checks to solve, and item encumbrance. But any of you all are totally welcome to think that treating any of your 6 stats as "useless" is a good idea.

Less of a joke and more to the point: I do actually wonder if this is something that perhaps shouldn't be changed then. Honestly if making the Pacts just a feat or first level dip results in like half the player base wanting to do it I'd suggest that vears dangerously into "must have" territory and is therefore bad game design. Again, as I joked above I don't personally feel this is the case, but I'm also someone who doesn't think races with flight at level 1 are remotely overpowered in the slightest and WoTC seems convinced otherwise. shrugs.

I will admit, "trap option" or no, I am sad to see Invocations like Eyes of the Rune Keeper just rolled into bog standard ritual casting.

I liked being able to have that kind of utility spell active on demand without needing the necessarily to dedicate a full ritual casting to it - especially EotRK, which was essentially active full time and entirely non-magical.

I actually dislike how they are potentially removing all of these invocations. I've played a lot of warlocks since the launch of 5e and frankly Eldritch Sight and Eyes of the Rune Keeper are two of my favorite invocations, to the point where I almost always have at least one of them. I'd argue strongly neither is actually a "trap option" and it's led to quite a few moments in several campaigns where my characters have been able to gleam information off of old cave walls, "dead" hieroglyphic languages, or other various similar things in game. I suppose one could argue that maybe this could be considered a "problematic" invocation in that it can catch unprepared or newer DMs off guard, but that's a whole other debate.

What irks me about the removal of all of these low level at will invocations is that they locked ritual casting behind Pact of the Tome, it basically makes (for me at least) Pact of the Tome essentially now a required invocation for every warlock. I think this is just bad design. Frankly I think if these invocations are getting the axe the base class needs ritual casting (I also think the sorcerer needs ritual casting too, but again, that's a tangent for this thread). You also can't even make the argument that they just need to trim redundant invocations because they let stuff like Mask of Many Faces and Master of Myriad Forms still both being present. Do I like that they did the sensible thing and reduced the warlock levels for many invocations? Yes. That's great. Do I think it's comical that Not 4 levels after taking Mask of Many Faces I can now take another invocation that makes my first selection utterly obsolete? Also yes. Especially when they removed the ability to swap out invocations on level ups.

Also, if they are going to be removing so many invocations, cool. It's fine that they added a couple of the spells to the warlock list. But where are
conjure elemental, slow, polymorph, bestow curse, compulsion, freedom of movement, and animate dead? They need to all be added to the warlock spell list if any of those are getting cut. If they were rated poorly as invocations it's only because they functioned the weird as heck way they did with letting you cast it once with a spell slot while others gave you endless spellcasting of other spells. They should've all just been "You learn X spell and can cast it at its base level once per long rest without expending a spell slot." While I don't necessarily like all of these invocations as written by default (we houserule them to what I wrote), many of them are frankly amazing spells that are on theme for warlocks, especially in the absence of any Witch class.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Good thing you can see yourself. Usually. Otherwise, don't use this unless an ally is within 10 feet of you.


Don't be next to your allies when you use this! Unless you're a masochist of course, then you do you.


Don't be next to your allies when you use this one, either. Unless you're a sadist. Which you probably are.

So... what you're saying is one should practice tactics when using their tactical movement-based abilities?

 

[niklinna]

So... what you're saying is one should practice tactics when using their tactical movement-based abilities?

You get a cookie!

(Or a Snickers if that's your preference.)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Still think they need an invocation that let's you cast more spells.

I.e.
Expanded Tome
Perquisite: tome.
You get a level 2 slot, and add a spell from any class list up to 2nd level to your tome.
Special: You can take this up to 4 times, each time getting a slot and spell 1 level higher (max level 5).

That needs a level requisite. Other than that, I like it.
It also should be 2 new ritual spells instead of any spell.

 

[Minigiant]

Sorcerer/Bard - Cha
Artificer/Wizard - Int
Cleric/Druid - Wis
Lock - YOLO (Int/Wis/Cha)

Nah
D&D lore.

Int magic is "scientific magic". AKA you know 80%+ what you are doing.

Warlocks don't or cant do the science of warlock magic. It's beyond learning. That's why they make pacts. So patrons can unlock the path in and give them powers.

If warlocks were smart (high int) they'd be wizards and have more spells. Warlocks make pacts to get powers they don't fully understand. They magic is powered by force of will like comic book characters and not knowledge or empathy.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

What irks me about the removal of all of these low level at will invocations is that they locked ritual casting behind Pact of the Tome, it basically makes (for me at least) Pact of the Tome essentially now a required invocation for every warlock. I think this is just bad design. Frankly I think if these invocations are getting the axe the base class needs ritual casting (I also think the sorcerer needs ritual casting too, but again, that's a tangent for this thread).

Setting aside the broader issues re: the invocations, I don't think the lack of ritual casting is really a problem anymore.

Check the Ritual Casting section of the Playtest 7 glossary - page 52, I think. As long as you have the spell prepared and it has the Ritual tag, you can cast it as a ritual and no longer need a special feature to do so. Still eats up a slot on your "Prepared" list, but you don't need to burn an actual Spell Slot to cast it provided you have the time.

The Wizard ritual casting trait and Pact of the Tome basically just specify that you can also ritually cast the spells in your book as though they were actively on your "Prepared" list too. They give you a broader array of ritual spell options than just what you keep on your "Prepared" list, but aren't strictly required simply to cast ritual spells at all anymore.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Less of a joke and more to the point: I do actually wonder if this is something that perhaps shouldn't be changed then.

Oh I definitely agree. We'll see how my fellow grogs feel when the actual survey comes out - as it's a minor change, in theory (level 2 to level 1), I suspect most of them will think it's absolutely fine, unfortunately, and it'll pass.