D&D (2024) The new warlock (Packet 7)

[Scribe]

It is a shame Warlocks cannot pick their casting stat anymore. Why does Charisma have to be the only answer?

Exactly what I want to know. Cha is too busy.

 

[niklinna]

As for the Warlock, the Eldritch recharge is nice. The Eldritch Invocations being from level 1 is a great chance and really hones in on the occultist-vibe the Warlock's been missing so far. It gives the idea of a person who is learning weird magic things progressively until 3rd level where their occult research gets them into connection with a more powerful magical entity. It is amazing flavor and sounds fun to express at the table. Being able to get feats and more pact boons is also really cool.

Isn't it curious then that there are three "pact" invocations you can take before 3rd level? I guess changing the name would be a bridge too far! To be clear, I think that's actually really neat. If I were to play this warlock, I would just pick my character's patron at level 1 (or not!) for roleplaying purposes, recognizing that no mechanical benefit will show up until 3rd level. At which point, if I hadn't already picked, I would say my character's patron suddenly revealed its identity.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Well you see Warlocks now have Magical Cunning, which removes their need (= incentive) for Short Resting! They can just do that thing between Long Rests instead. Problem definitively solved.

For some reason I read this in David Mitchell's voice, replete with eyes-to-camera on and eyebrows raised on definitively.

 

[niklinna]

For some reason I read this in David Mitchell's voice, replete with eyes-to-camera on and eyebrows raised on definitively.

It's a good fit!

 

[WarlockkingNelzul]

I would love more pact of the chain familiar options the slaadpole seems kinda weird, maybe replace it with an abyssal chicken

 

[Neonchameleon]

EB though, and usually AB, you'd be, well not insane, not to take, but one of:

You missed 4: knowing exactly what you are doing and doing very weird but effective things with your build.

I'm thinking of a celestial tomelock I played that used two basic at will actions in combat:

• Silent Image dropped over the combat and moved to really mess with people, utterly abusing familiarity with images to produce situational blindness for the other side
• A combination of the shilealeagh cantrip, green flame blade, and the extra d8 on fire damage from Celestial at level 6 for 3d8+Cha damage. Which isn't far off 2d10+2*Cha. And if I really needed to attack at range (rather than obscuring LoS to the whole party) I had a 3d8 Sacred Flame.

No one complained about the effectiveness. I've also seen a Pact of the Blade warlock without Eldritch Blast because they wanted to go stabby on people and without AB EB is at the top of the curve not well above it. And Silent Image is a great gap closer.

 

[Shardstone]

Isn't it curious then that there are three "pact" invocations you can take before 3rd level? I guess changing the name would be a bridge too far! To be clear, I think that's actually really neat. If I were to play this warlock, I would just pick my character's patron at level 1 (or not!) for roleplaying purposes, recognizing that no mechanical benefit will show up until 3rd level. At which point, if I hadn't already picked, I would say my character's patron suddenly revealed its identity.

From my perspective, those pacts are with minor things, and you might not even know what you've made a pact with until 3rd level.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You missed 4: knowing exactly what you are doing and doing very weird but effective things with your build.

I'm thinking of a celestial tomelock I played that used two basic at will actions in combat:

• Silent Image dropped over the combat and moved to really mess with people, utterly abusing familiarity with images to produce situational blindness for the other side
• A combination of the shilealeagh cantrip, green flame blade, and the extra d8 on fire damage from Celestial at level 6 for 3d8+Cha damage. Which isn't far off 2d10+2*Cha. And if I really needed to attack at range (rather than obscuring LoS to the whole party) I had a 3d8 Sacred Flame.

No one complained about the effectiveness. I've also seen a Pact of the Blade warlock without Eldritch Blast because they wanted to go stabby on people and without AB EB is at the top of the curve not well above it. And Silent Image is a great gap closer.

I feel like this is reliant 90% on a generous DM who you know will react in a very specific way to Silent Image (which, with a 15' cube as maximum size, is extremely easy to work around), and falls off more and more as you go to higher levels.

It's also taking a ton of effort to stack multiple things just to get slightly worse damage and have to do that damage in melee - which is a lot riskier than range, especially given your AC was likely kind of mid.

Plus there's no logical reason not to take EB in that build - AB maybe not, that's always little more flexible (of course now you can put AB on GFB, one presumes) - it's still an incredibly good cantrip.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I feel like this is reliant 90% on a generous DM who you know will react in a very specific way to Silent Image (which, with a 15' cube as maximum size, is extremely easy to work around), and falls off more and more as you go to higher levels.

It's also taking a ton of effort to stack multiple things just to get slightly worse damage and have to do that damage in melee - which is a lot riskier than range, especially given your AC was likely kind of mid.

The thing is it didn't actually take much effort. I was already looking at a celestial warlock because I knew that we needed someone to revive the party cleric but didn't want to steal the cleric's thunder as a primary healer. And the rest of it just lined up. But yes another DM would have been less generous with silent images of fog clouds, smoke, and barriers.

Plus there's no logical reason not to take EB in that build - AB maybe not, that's always little more flexible (of course now you can put AB on GFB, one presumes) - it's still an incredibly good cantrip.

There's no actually good reason to take it in that build (before level 11) when Sacred Flame does 3d8 damage while Eldritch Blast would only do 2d10 damage, and you get Sacred Flame for free with the Celestial Pact. And there are enough good cantrips that it would be a waste of one.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

There's no actually good reason to take it in that build (before level 11) when Sacred Flame does 3d8 damage while Eldritch Blast would only do 2d10 damage, and you get Sacred Flame for free with the Celestial Pact.

Fair, I wasn't accounting for the fact that you get that for free.

The thing is it didn't actually take much effort. I was already looking at a celestial warlock because I knew that we needed someone to revive the party cleric but didn't want to steal the cleric's thunder as a primary healer. And the rest of it just lined up. But yes another DM would have been less generous with silent images of fog clouds, smoke, and barriers.

Yeah it's a good build and I like it, but it does require some lining up - even if that happened accidentally for you - and even with all that, it's not quite as powerful. I genuinely do like it though - it's a bit more like the kind of build I usually go with.