D&D (2024) The new warlock (Packet 7)

[Stalker0]

Relentless Rage has a short rest mechanic in it.

As we know that few games actually play to 11+ level, I would argue that any ability past 10th isn't part of the "core class", its part of the "epic version" of the class that only a handful of tables will experience. (heck even levels 9 and 10 are pretty rare for a lot of tables).

So if a class doesn't get short rest mechanics until 11+, I would argue the class identify does not include SR.

 

[Mistwell]

As we know that few games actually play to 11+ level, I would argue that any ability past 10th isn't part of the "core class", its part of the "epic version" of the class that only a handful of tables will experience. (heck even levels 9 and 10 are pretty rare for a lot of tables).

So if a class doesn't get short rest mechanics until 11+, I would argue the class identify does not include SR.

I am not sure if I agree, but in general I agree with the sentiment a Barbarian should get a rage use back after a short rest. I don't even think it should be the "if you're out of rages". But then I think all of those single recharge mechanics should just get one back without having to be out.

 

[niklinna]

To clarify, I was talking about whether all spells are actually spells within the fiction, or if the spell is just a handy mechanical container for effects, and they're reskinnable within the fiction.

Like, the Wild Heart Barbarian can cast Speak with Animals as a Ritual at 3rd level, per the latest packet. Is the Barbarian actually casting a magic spell, recognizable as the exact same spell the Druid casts to the characters, or is speak with animals just the handy container to represent the Barbarian's connection with nature?

The answer, as usual, is "It's up to the DM"! They don't have nearly enough work to do, after all.

 

[niklinna]

You don't need to do that in 5E, all races get a Feat at level 1. But yes worst case scenario you could do that.

Yeah, he's said that, and taken ABSOLUTELY NO ACTION on that front.

It's truly bizarre behaviour. There are obvious way to incentivize every single class into Short Resting, but WotC just refuse to actually do any one of them, whilst repeatedly paying the idea that they should lip-service.

Well you see Warlocks now have Magical Cunning, which removes their need (= incentive) for Short Resting! They can just do that thing between Long Rests instead. Problem definitively solved.

 

[niklinna]

I suspect they changed it because they realized if you can cast it at will without a spell slot, you can just keep recasting it until you roll an 8 anyway. So they figured this change would save some time, and never even considered making it not the spell.

It's such a huge conceptual leap, after all.

 

[niklinna]

In 4E, wasn't the Short Rest like a 5 Min thing or something?

And warlocks had a coherent class design! A bit on the weak side, and MAD for Star Pact (how fitting tho).

 

[ChameleonX]

The only parts I dislike are that Magical Cunning is too weak (because it's basically just a weaker Eldritch Master, and that feature was already trash), and Hex and Eldritch Blast are no longer class features.

Why? Literally every Warlock is going to choose those spells unless they're actively gimping their build, so why not just give them for free? Or at least bump them to to 3 cantrips and 3 spells known at 1st level, so at least there's an option there.

 

[Shardstone]

I was very critical of rolling back the Warlock, but I like the new design quite a bit. I miss the unique focus on cantrips, but perhaps those ideas would be better suited to a reimagining of the Artificer. An Artificer with cantrips that activate magic trinkets they have could be a very interesting and fertile design space to explore.

As for the Warlock, the Eldritch recharge is nice. The Eldritch Invocations being from level 1 is a great chance and really hones in on the occultist-vibe the Warlock's been missing so far. It gives the idea of a person who is learning weird magic things progressively until 3rd level where their occult research gets them into connection with a more powerful magical entity. It is amazing flavor and sounds fun to express at the table. Being able to get feats and more pact boons is also really cool.

The changes to the Archfey I find are a little bland. The misty step focus is strange. I much more preferred the illusion idea, but that got sucked into the Great Old ONe, which is now a WAY more enjoyable and cooler looking Warlock patron. The Great Old One got a seriously crazy glow up. Would be keen to play this.

It is a shame Warlocks cannot pick their casting stat anymore. Why does Charisma have to be the only answer? Oh well. I also wish Warlocks (and Sorcerers) both got about 25-30 more unique spells. I feel like the generic spells just don't really fit the idea of Warlock, I'd love to see them have more strange, esoteric, and occult-themed spells on their list.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Why? Literally every Warlock is going to choose those spells unless they're actively gimping their build, so why not just give them for free? Or at least bump them to to 3 cantrips and 3 spells known at 1st level, so at least there's an option there.

Not even close to true. Hex, being a concentration spell when there are great concentration spells and invocations is a "may take this" spell especially with the sprite familiar using bonus actions on save or suck. Hex is a build choice and statement of intent.

Eldritch Blast on the other hand is pretty close to a "must" spell from level 5 onwards.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Not even close to true. Hex, being a concentration spell when there are great concentration spells and invocations is a "may take this" spell especially with the sprite familiar using bonus actions on save or suck. Hex is a build choice and statement of intent.

Eldritch Blast on the other hand is pretty close to a "must" spell from level 5 onwards.

Yup.

I'd go as far as to say Hex is kind of close to being a trap if you're going full Warlock or Warlock/Caster multiclass, because there are quite a number of strong options for either your Concentration or your Bonus Action, and Hex needs both maybe the majority of rounds.

For an average of +3.5 damage per beam * hit % - which is nice but not killer unless your primary is single target DPS.

EB though, and usually AB, you'd be, well not insane, not to take, but one of:

1) Clueless about building characters - nothing wrong with that unless you think you aren't, unfortunately about 30-40% of people who are clueless at this think they're experts or at least competent, but trip up on the most basic math and logic.

2) Going for a strongly RP-focused angle that for some reason doesn't allow for EB - this has got to be ultra-corner-case even by RP standards though. I often play heavily RP-oriented PCs but you can usually build them to ALSO be mechanically strong as Josh Sawyer (lead designer on Pentiment, Pillars of Eternity 2, and a lot of aspects of Fallout: NV) discussed a few weeks back on Twitter.

3) A real genuine hater for EB. Respect to irrational hatred for certain abilities I guess!