WotC Hasbro gains big time from D&D, Magic, Monopoly, and Baldur's Gate 3

[Ruin Explorer]

Why would you forgive them?

For me it's not even about forgiveness or not. That's a thing for people not companies imho. The real question for me is can I basically trust a company to behave in a normal, boring, reliable way, whether that's "nice" or "mean" almost doesn't matter so long as they're predictable.

And that's the huge problem for me here with WotC. They were a pretty steady and boring company, for the most part. But this OGL 1.1 deal was absolute lunacy. And not only that, they were taking it extremely seriously, and implying it was going to happen soon, and we might slightly influence the terms but we needed to accept it was happening. This is just bizarre and alarmingly non-boring behaviour from a company!

Now I have to look at every action WotC takes and try and see if it's part of some bananas outburst like OGL 1.1. Now, if all MS people had left, I could probably stop, because this seems to be associated with them. But they haven't, and they likely won't any time soon. So going forwards WotC needs to be considered non-boring, and I do not like that!

And further, I think the 3D VTT is going to cause enough issues to also be pretty "non-boring" behaviour, and may even kind of sink WotC D&D or cause it to be sold off. And that's going to hitting in the next 1-3 years really.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Possibly, but, it doesn't make it any less true.

The whole "OGL debacle" was a blip. It made zero difference. There was no great drop in D&D Beyond Subs. There was no drop in sales for WotC. For all the drama, it had basically zero impact.

The one thing that the OGL debacle did highlight is how little any of it mattered. For the people for whom it was important, it was a huge thing. For most of the fandom? They didn't even hear about it.

The biggest takeaway was that Wotc and Hasbro care about brand loyalty and brand image enough to hard turn even if they aren’t losing money from what is making people angry.

That’s a very important thing to know, for anyone who wants to predict future behavior.

They panicked, and it objectively was not short term loss of profit that made them do so. Which is good. It’s a good sign. It also, IMO, lends creadence to what Kyle Brink said over and over in his PR tour. They weren’t seton the course of action represented by the leaked contract, they were already reconsidering it based on creator feedback, and the main thing the community outrage did was push them faster and harder in the other direction.

 

[Parmandur]

It was only never implemented because people acted. That it wasn't implemented is absolutely not a reason to absolve WotC. They didn't shrug and say "nah" -- we forced them to back off an absolutely horrible plan. Why would you forgive them?

WotC, Supreme Court decisions be darned, is not a person. A corporation cannot be absolved or forgiven, because they have no personality or soul. Individual human beings do. And the individual human beings who were behind the OGL shenanigans hopefully have had to pay a price for their actions: no doubt someone's head rolled over this, as it threatened shareholder value. But I won't hold everyone at WotC responsible, and corporations cannot be "reaponsible" or such. I never trusted the company, and I won't forgive it either, because both are impossible. WotC is not my friend, it is a cabal to male a profit selling toys.

 

[Velderan]

The biggest takeaway was that Wotc and Hasbro care about brand loyalty and brand image enough to hard turn even if they aren’t losing money from what is making people angry.

That’s a very important thing to know, for anyone who wants to predict future behavior.

They panicked, and it objectively was not short term loss of profit that made them do so. Which is good. It’s a good sign. It also, IMO, lends creadence to what Kyle Brink said over and over in his PR tour. They weren’t seton the course of action represented by the leaked contract, they were already reconsidering it based on creator feedback, and the main thing the community outrage did was push them faster and harder in the other direction.

The other thing he said IIRC was there were higher ups who didn't seem to understand this unusual license they had and I think they were educated pretty quickly on what that license means to a lot of the community. Hopefully they don't forget and just focus on other ways of growing their brand, like focusing on improving the DDB platform to offer more cool things people that use it have been asking for. There's plenty of money to be made doing that.

 

[Parmandur]

The other thing he said IIRC was there were higher ups who didn't seem to understand this unusual license they had and I think they were educated pretty quickly on what that license means to a lot of the community. Hopefully they don't forget and just focus on other ways of growing their brand, like focusing on improving the DDB platform to offer more cool things people that use it have been asking for. There's plenty of money to be made doing that.

I recall listening to a podcast by a non-hobbyist lawyer whose takeaway was that the OGL 2.0 was gobsmackingly generous by general IP standards, so it is conceivable to me having worked in situations where people walked backwards into major problems with every good intention that most people involved with this at WotC thought they were offering a sweetheart deal. Which is another reason I don't feel the need to "absolve" or "forgive" to regain "trust": corporate decision making processes can make garbage out of pure goodwill on the part of individuals.

 

[mamba]

WotC, Supreme Court decisions be darned, is not a person. A corporation cannot be absolved or forgiven, because they have no personality or soul.

well, then them not being forgiven should be just fine

Individual human beings do. And the individual human beings who were behind the OGL shenanigans hopefully have had to pay a price for their actions: no doubt someone's head rolled over this, as it threatened shareholder value.

I have not heard anything about that, would have expected to if that indeed happened however… so I doubt anything actually did change, have you heard anything?

 

[Oofta]

WotC, Supreme Court decisions be darned, is not a person. A corporation cannot be absolved or forgiven, because they have no personality or soul. Individual human beings do. And the individual human beings who were behind the OGL shenanigans hopefully have had to pay a price for their actions: no doubt someone's head rolled over this, as it threatened shareholder value. But I won't hold everyone at WotC responsible, and corporations cannot be "reaponsible" or such. I never trusted the company, and I won't forgive it either, because both are impossible. WotC is not my friend, it is a cabal to male a profit selling toys.

It has always seemed odd to me that people throw around this idea that WOTC broke their "trust". I don't trust corporations to do anything other than what makes sense for the corporation. If that means they produce a product I find worth purchasing, great! Some D&D products are worth my money, some are not. It has nothing to do with trust, it's a matter of a judgement call on whether I'll enjoy the product.

 

[mamba]

I recall listening to a podcast by a non-hobbyist lawyer whose takeaway was that the OGL 2.0 was gobsmackingly generous by general IP standards

maybe, but they did not start at 0, they started from the OGL having been in place for 20 years…

If I gave you $1000 a month for 20 years and then reduced it to $100, I doubt you would say ‘well, 100 is generous compared to the general standard of me getting 0’, esp when we have a contract in which I agreed to forever pay you $1000 per month

 

[Parmandur]

well, then them not being forgiven should be just fine

Just tired of the whole thing. I wanna talk about Elves fighting Mindflayers.

I have not heard anything about that, would have expected to if that indeed happened however… so I doubt anything actually did change, have you heard anything?

Hasbro, in my experience, sweeps stuff under the rug. See also, Mike Mearls.

 

[Parmandur]

maybe, but they did not start at 0, they started from the OGL having been in place for 20 years…

If I gave you $1000 a month for 20 years and then reduced it to $100, I doubt you would say ‘well, 100 is generous compared to the general standard of me getting 0’, esp when I promised you that I would forever pay you $1000 per month

Decision makers weren't all there 20 years ago (most of the high-ups have only been there for a year or so now). And institutional memory can be fickle, and default to industry norms over time.