D&D 5E Planescape shows up in the wild. Tease from Chris Perkins.

I don't know what definition you're using, so I can't answer that question for you.

What I can tell you is that I have seen zero evidence that people are less interested in lore, and ton that they're more interested in lore, in general.
What evidence? I have seen nothing that tells me what people's interest in lore was in 1993 or 2023. What tea leaves are your reading?
Also you're supporting my argument with your statistics, lol, you get that right?
I am not trying to support or disagree with your argument. I am just asking what you are basing it on.

Also, my statistics could, IMO, be used to support either argument actually. So I find it interesting that you think they support yours.

And to be clear, I have no opinion one way or the other. I have no data to base an opinion on!
 
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Yes, exactly.

If he hadn't done it the internet would have exploded with people complaining about his absence ruining the whole thing. Mediocre Diterlizzi art is on Diterlizzi. Not even asking him to do art is WotC "being out of touch with the real Planescape fans" and "not understanding why Planescape was great in the first place," etc.

Now we are arguing about if the art is good or not, rather that how WotC management botched another beloved setting (at least not yet...).
Exactly this, I think.

If hypothetically they brought back Dark Sun, they'd absolutely bring back Brom, even if his art style had changed to be more manga look and no longer looked 'Brom/Dark Sun'. And we'd be in the same boat we are now
 

Been over this topic with several people around here at least a dozen times. We could trade statistics and dramatic explanations all day, you’re not gonna convince me that blue is red because you won’t look past your own pessimism. 🤷‍♂️


ETA: since you’re interjecting into a comparison of this year vs 2013 (ten years ago), look up the numbers on state violence globally for 2013. 13 and 14 were extremely bad years, and the numbers have dropped quite a lot since then.

The US child poverty rate is still lower, by the way, than it was in 2013. Healthcare coverage is still vastly better, and health outcomes are still better. The story is even more positive in much it the developing world, where many places have gained dramatically in terms of access to health and education resources in the last decade.

So no, I didn’t sleep through the pandemic of “shipocolypse”, or “greedflation (thanks for reminding me how much I despise these sensationalist nicknames for terrible things). I worked full time for a company that gave us next to nothing as thanks for making them record profits. Price gouging and an otherwise manageable family emergency has turned a lifestyle I could comfortably afford into an amount of unsecured debt that I will have to seek debt relief to get out from under. I’m living the crap you think I slept through.

I’m just not blinded by what’s going on in my life, and am willing to look at the bigger picture.

I can relate to the debt thing for sure.
 

Wow. That's such a profound misunderstanding of the relatively whimsical and light-hearted Planescape, that I'm not even sure what to say. That's bizarre. That's like describing Good Omens or Neverwhere that way.
Planescape was undoubtedly humorous. But it played into the trend for pretending to understand philosophy - seen as a sure-fire path to romantic success in the 90s. Lots of people took it seriously, not understanding the joke (also true for a lot of Neil Gaiman readers). As for vampires, sure they have long been popular and continue to be popular in some circles, but they had a big explosion in mainstream popularity in the 90s (spawning rapidly forgotten TV shows like Ultraviolet). Then they where replaced by zombies, who where replaced by - well, I don't spend so much time in secondary schools these days, so I don't know what the cool kids are currently into, but I've watched plenty of trends ebb and flow.
 

No, they couldn't, bro. Simple math. If you don't understand that I'm not sure what you want lol.
Yes it could.

Analysis A
17% lore in 1993
9% lore in 2023
This indicates a drop in people caring about lore

Analysis B
17% lore in 1993
17% lore in 2023 for the same group
This indicates no change in people caring about lore

A indicates as sample size grew, caring about lore dropped

B indicates within one group, caring about lore didn't change

It is how you want to look at the numbers.

Also, like I said, I don't care about my incredibly small sample size, I was interested in where your conviction comes from.
 

But it played into the trend for pretending to understand philosophy - seen as a sure-fire path to romantic success in the 90s. Lots of people took it seriously, not understanding the joke (also true for a lot of Neil Gaiman readers).
I mean, it's fun to sneer, but I think it might be you who is missing the joke or the real cultural understanding here, I'm afraid. I know Gaiman would strongly disagree with you, based on things he's said. He certainly doesn't see the philosophical elements in his works as ironic or satirical in the way you do.
As for vampires, sure they have long been popular and continue to be popular in some circles, but they had a big explosion in mainstream popularity in the 90s (spawning rapidly forgotten TV shows like Ultraviolet). Then they where replaced by zombies, who where replaced by - well, I don't spend so much time in secondary schools these days, so I don't know what the cool kids are currently into, but I've watched plenty of trends ebb and flow.
Ultraviolet helps illustrate why you're presenting a rather inaccurate account here.

There are essentially two kinds of vampire tale:

1) Vampires are monsters and not people - we might be fooled into thinking they're something else, but they're just monsters. In this type of tale they're often also an allegory of or metaphor for capitalism, greed, disease, power, or many other things (sometimes getting into murky waters).

Things like the original Dracula (and some adaptions), Blade (the movies/TV show), Ultraviolet, The Strain, Let The Right One In and so on.

2) Vampires are monsters - but they're also people, and some, perhaps only a few, can be redeemed or at least can self-contain.

Things like Interview with the Vampire, The Vampire Diaries, True Blood, Angel, Twilight, Vampire: The Masquerade/The Requiem and so on.

Type 2 are often sneered at, particularly by straight men, particularly older straight men. Basically the more akin to Jeremy Clarkson one is, the more likely one is to violently sneer at the latter. Whereas the same people may well enjoy Type 1 vampire antics. Typically Type 2 are more successful, financially and in terms of enduring popularity, than the former (and I say this as a man who die to protect Blade (1998)!).

Zombies never replaced Type 2. They did largely replace Type 1. There were some attempts, particularly in SF/horror lit to try and have zombies replace Type 2, but we can say now that they definitely didn't work. Zombies were never popular with "the cool kids" or the romantics or whoever. They were mostly popular with people in their 20s and 30s who wanted to watch movies and shows which were horrifying but in an understandable and safe way.
 


I mean, it's fun to sneer
I'm not sneering, I'm just old and detached enough to to see the patterns.
I think it might be you who is missing the joke or the real cultural understanding here, I'm afraid.
I certainly think one of us might be.
Ultraviolet helps illustrate why you're presenting a rather inaccurate account here.

There are essentially two kinds of vampire tale:

1) Vampires are monsters and not people - we might be fooled into thinking they're something else, but they're just monsters. In this type of tale they're often also an allegory of or metaphor for capitalism, greed, disease, power, or many other things (sometimes getting into murky waters).

Things like the original Dracula (and some adaptions), Blade (the movies/TV show), Ultraviolet, The Strain, Let The Right One In and so on.

2) Vampires are monsters - but they're also people, and some, perhaps only a few, can be redeemed or at least can self-contain.

Things like Interview with the Vampire, The Vampire Diaries, True Blood, Angel, Twilight, Vampire: The Masquerade/The Requiem and so on.

Type 2 are often sneered at, particularly by straight men, particularly older straight men. Basically the more akin to Jeremy Clarkson one is, the more likely one is to violently sneer at the latter. Whereas the same people may well enjoy Type 1 vampire antics. Typically Type 2 are more successful, financially and in terms of enduring popularity, than the former (and I say this as a man who die to protect Blade (1998)!).

Zombies never replaced Type 2. They did largely replace Type 1. There were some attempts, particularly in SF/horror lit to try and have zombies replace Type 2, but we can say now that they definitely didn't work.
Look at the detail, miss the pattern.

But no one is talking about completely replacing, just an ebb and flow in popularity.
Zombies were never popular with "the cool kids"
You clearly didn't work in a secondary school in the 2010s!
 

If Hasbro wants D&D to be a multimedia franchise then the lore is necessary for the rest of products: videogames, comics, Hollywood productions, novels..

And lots of DMs would rather to create a mash-up version of their favorite franchise for her TTRPG.

Maybe after there is a different Sigil from a "parallel Outlands" where there is more space but also the Lady of Pain was exiled by the god of portals Aoskar (with indirect and accidental help by Vecna with his own conspirancies and the arcanes who wanted their market-demiplane was more important for interplanar trade, the name was Union in the handbook of epic levels, and Haven in Dragon magazine).

Or a second layer within the Outlands could be created fusing previous "shards" from Sigil (some times some zones of the city are "broken" and lost in the Astral Sea), and a cluster of demiplanes used or created by the arcanes to trade. One of the zones would be like a reboot of Radiant Citadel, but with more space for farming.

Kamigawa could show us some clues about how the Spirit Realm should be as a third echo plane.
 

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