D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[AbdulAlhazred]

For the paladin in one of my groups, I allowed them a subset of rituals (no feat required) that could be performed spending Healing Surges (they could also spend the residuum if they wanted to). They loved it.

This is brought back in my 4e hack, HoML in basically identical form. Rituals have slightly different niche, but its pretty close to their place in 4e and you can often invoke them (not always) via a power point expenditure. Usually its also possible to expend ingredients instead, though if you do BOTH you get 'enhanced effect'.

Aye! They could've added something akin to the 1e AD&D description of HP and been more explicit about the broad nature of many things and how they were being used to avoid overcomplicating things with minutia/granularity that didn't add to the gameplay experience.

I don't recall the exact description, but 4e must at least vaguely state something similar to 1e. Overall though, 4e can assume everyone has played video games with health bars, which in turn are basically stemming from D&D's original design.

Likewise. I/we found 4e much more freeing than 3e when it came to creativity, more akin to my 1e/2e experience.* And p42** explicitly called out that improvisation and creativity was expected and encouraged.


* That said, the less dangerous nature of the default assumptions for encounters reduced the need for some of the more "old school" tricks and strategizing. But when playing a campaign (as noted in session 0) with stronger than average foes, that creativity not only returned, but could get ramped up to delicious levels combining character abilities with the classic bevvy of tricks.

** After all these years, the one thing I don't know about 4e that I really want to know is whether that having those rules on that page number page was intentional or a fortuitous bit of luck...

Yeah, what I would say is, you can make 4e as brutal and survivalist as you want, you just have to find that sort of play entertaining. It will do it OK.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm fairly sure that there was no hardcover. The two preview books are the two softcovers that you mentioned upthread.

Yeah, maybe they were only softcovers. As I say, I never bothered to pick up either of them since the first I heard of 4e was the day they started selling it, or a few weeks before that maybe. 3e was uninteresting to me, so I did other stuff during that era and didn't pay attention to whatever WotC was up to.

 

[Voadam]

4e PH1 explanation of hp page 293

Hit points (hp) measure your ability to stand up to punishment, turn deadly strikes into glancing blows, and stay on your feet throughout a battle. Hit points represent more than physical endurance. They represent your character’s skill, luck, and resolve—all the factors that combine to help you stay alive in a combat situation.

* * *

Powers, abilities, and actions that restore hit points are known as healing. You might regain hit points through rest, heroic resolve, or magic. When you heal, add the number to your current hit points. You can heal up to your maximum hit point total, but you can’t exceed it.

 

[cavalier973]

The Essentials-era art was good.

I liked the scene in the Rules Compendium of the two members of an adventuring party that are about to throw hands, two other members are trying to get between them, and the elf is standing nearby, sipping wine and rolling his eyes.

The Monster Vault 2 Art was good, too.

The scene in Fallcrest in DMG1, with the party strolling along a crowded street and waving off vendors really sells the town.

I like that the PHB and the DMG has the same scene, but from different perspectives.

There is a scene in the DMG of three members trying to fight off a band of tiefling skeletons. The paladin lady has just cut one of the skeletons in twain with her war pick, the elf is zapping another skelly with a wand, and the rogue (ranger) is using his crossbow as a club. I never really liked it, but recently, I began studying it, and have come to appreciate it quite a bit.

 

[pemerton]

There is a scene in the DMG of three members trying to fight off a band of tiefling skeletons. The paladin lady has just cut one of the skeletons in twain with her war pick, the elf is zapping another skelly with a wand, and the rogue (ranger) is using his crossbow as a club. I never really liked it, but recently, I began studying it, and have come to appreciate it quite a bit.

It's in the PHB - it's the splash for the Feats chapter.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah I wasn't a huge fan of 4e art. It was objectively good. I don't want to offend anyone, and this is solely my opinion, but it felt too cartoony to me. I feel the same way about PF art. During the Next playtest, the few Next adventures we got (Murder in BG, Icewind Dale, and that Daggerford adventure) I really liked that art style. It felt more mature in my opinion.

It's the WAR art doesn't do it for me either. Tbf to 4E I didn't like his art in 2002 when I first noticed it and didn't like it 2009 on the cover of Pathfinder.

4E phb isn't that bad its most just the cover and chapter 4 for the most part.

 

[dave2008]

Yup. There were a couple things even I didn’t believe and Ben had the proof to back his statements up.

What was the proof?

 

[dave2008]

(Also, and I'd have to dig around, but I have a feeling I saw an auto hit magic missile in official 4e paperwork. Maybe the starter set but I could be wrong.)

I think maybe the autohit magic missile came back with the essentials line? I remember seeing that too.

PS - I agree that people just need to relax a bit. I went from 1e to 4e and loved it. It was still D&D to me.

 

[Zeromaru X]

I think may the autohit magic missile came back with the essentials line? I remember seeing that too.

Yeah, and I remember all the CharOp guys were upset by it. But my wizard player, who started playing D&D with 4e, was very happy with the "improved Magic Missile".

 

[Zardnaar]

Magic missile is just to classic to mess with. It kinda sucks in 5E barely see it cast.