D&D 5E The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)

[Minigiant]

Without some supernatural aspect, what's the difference between a nonmagical paladin and a fighter, mechanically? Serious question. I'd like to know where your head is at here.

Zeal. The nonmagical paladin... is crazy. Their religious fervor lets them tap into their body's full potential, breaking the limits the brain pus on muscle.

Sorta like the monk but less discipline and more "So lawful stupid you are unstoppable".
Probably going back to the old mechanics where the avenger had to target certain enemies in order, except you choose the order and you get bonuses if you stick to those targets.

This is a system where Rage isn't barbarian exclusive. 3 martial classes would have rage but use them in different ways.

 

[James Gasik]

Zeal. The nonmagical paladin... is crazy. Their religious fervor lets them tap into their body's full potential, breaking the limits the brain pus on muscle.

Sorta like the monk but less discipline and more "So lawful stupid you are unstoppable".
Probably going back to the old mechanics where the avenger had to target certain enemies in order, except you choose the order and you get bonuses if you stick to those targets.

This is a system where Rage isn't barbarian exclusive. 3 martial classes would have rage but use them in different ways.

Wait, don't we have a Zealot Barbarian that does this already?

 

[Minigiant]

Wait, don't we have a Zealot Barbarian that does this already?

Eh. We can do better.

And the Zealot Barbarian is overtly magical.

 

[Zardnaar]

When my 5E group tried 2E, the player who loved playing Fighters LOVED it. He could kill things in 1 or 2 hits.

“I feel like what I do matters.”

Yeah it’s more lethal but it’s on both sides.

Similar experience here when I ran 2E. Let tge 3E/5E player use the fighters Handbook . Myrmiidon.

Been seeing a castle and Crusades f8ghter in action. Probably not as good as 2E or 2E fighter depending on rules used.

2E fighters Probably the best its ever been.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Without some supernatural aspect, what's the difference between a nonmagical paladin and a fighter, mechanically? Serious question. I'd like to know where your head is at here.

personally, my differentiation would be summed up as fighters best deal with clear(not the same as simple) problems to fight in front of them, paladins are designed to root out hidden problems and then take care of them.

fighters are masters of all kinds of combat and all kinds of weapons, against man, beast and monster, alongside both tactical and strategic battle planning, whereas a (nonmagical) paladin specialises with a certain toolset specifically designed to locate and deal with specific people and things,

i would make the distinction though, that divine powers are not and needs not be the same thing as divine magic, take the paladin as it is, remove their spells and replace them with a few good passive abilities or mundane abilities, bump up the amount of channel divinity and lay on hands they get, give them bonuses in religion, insight and investigation, advantage against being decieved perhaps,

 

[ECMO3]

Zeal. The nonmagical paladin... is crazy. Their religious fervor lets them tap into their body's full potential, breaking the limits the brain pus on muscle.

Sounds supernatural and mystical to me. Religious ferver can't overcome physics and biology IRL.

 

[Minigiant]

Sounds supernatural and mystical to me. Religious ferver can't overcome physics and biology IRL.

Humans are stronger and tougher than they usually are.

The brain limits our body to prevent damage.

Religious fervor literally can overcome biology.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Sounds supernatural and mystical to me. Religious ferver can't overcome physics and biology IRL.

good thing DnD doesn't take place IRL, it takes place in fantasyland where gods and demons exist

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I really don't like duplicate classes that represent the same concept, even if they did it differently. To me that is thematically confused. Either paladins in this setting are just nutters, or they gain actual divine magic. Pick one.

Furthermore, I don't think "zealous fighter" is nearly enough for basing an entire class around it. Subclass perhaps, though it mostly seems just like a personality quirk.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I really don't like duplicate classes that represent the same concept, even if they did it differently. To me that is thematically confused. Either paladins in this setting are just nutters, or they gain actual divine magic. Pick one.

is there any reason why it has to be divine magic? sure it might be power from the gods or belief but why does it have to take the form of magic specifically?