D&D 5E The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)

[Minigiant]

That is not more accurate at all. There is a fighter class defined in the PHB. Being meaningless (if that were true) is irrelevant to that observation.

What you imply here is you would prefer some of the subclass mechanics were in the class itself. That is fine, but it is fundamentally different than saying there is no fighter class.

What I am implying is that there should have been more than one martial warrior class, more than one monk class, More than one roguish expert class, etc etc.

Each of them exploring different styles of martials fully.

Instead what we got is something like when WOTC attempted to jam the Wizard Sorcerer Warlock and Psion, Artificer into one big Mage class.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm fine with that.

Unfortunately like I said before, most people are and have been designing casters.

Not everyone though. Gotta look around for the stuff you want, or make it yourself. That's been true the entire history of the game.

 

[Oofta]

What I am implying is that there should have been more than one martial warrior class, more than one monk class, More than one roguish expert class, etc etc.

Each of them exploring different styles of martials fully.

Instead what we got is something like when WOTC attempted to jam the Wizard Sorcerer Warlock and Psion, Artificer into one big Mage class.

Which they did in previous editions and it just led to confusion and classes that had massive overlap for little or no reason. Meanwhile we have fighter, barbarian, rogues and to a certain degree monks* for the martial classes

*Which, by the way we have monks because they're based in 70's and early 80's monks popular at the time with TV shows like Kung Fu. It's not like D&D classes have much relationship to historical professions.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

This has become a bizarre discussion. I am open to different views but one seems to be repeatedly asserted with “this is how it is because I know it’s that way—-and this guy on the internet agrees.” Not super convincing.

So you go to an ice cream shop and people keep ordering flavor 9 of 31 over and over above all other 30+ options.

Person A: “Well, that flavor sucks! If only they made a flavor people liked! I mean you’re choosing, ordering and eating it, but that’s just because people are used to eating it! If it had fruit in it, THEN people might like it!”

Person A: “Look I order and eat that flavor all the time. It’s good. I like it!”

Person B: “Aha! But do you LOVE it?! I can hear the uncertainty in your voice! I told you it sucked! Also “everyone” thinks it sucks! Sure they sell more of it than any other and people are free to choose something else. But we all know it’s because they don’t know any better. We know the person who came up with the flavor did it to make it worse than others! Checkmate!”

 

[Minigiant]

Which they did in previous editions and it just led to confusion and classes that had massive overlap for little or no reason. Meanwhile we have fighter, barbarian, rogues and to a certain degree monks* for the martial classes

Meh.

They just kept making casters. The 50 billion casters overlapped. They really didn't make many martials.

MOAR CLASSES!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

What I am implying is that there should have been more than one martial warrior class, more than one monk class, More than one roguish expert class, etc etc.

Each of them exploring different styles of martials fully.

Mate. They ran out of martial subclass ideas after couple and then wrote bunch of magical fighter subclasses. They don't even have enough ideas for the martial classes we currently have.

Instead what we got is something like when WOTC attempted to jam the Wizard Sorcerer Warlock and Psion, Artificer into one big Mage class.

Sounds good to me. There definitely are too many caster classes and some should have been combined.

 

[Minigiant]

Mate. They ran out of martial subclass ideas after couple and then wrote bunch of magical fighter subclasses. They don't even have enough ideas for the martial classes we currently have.

I am so happy to hear someone else openly admit that.

I was starting to think I was the crazy one.

 

[Oofta]

Meh.

They just kept making casters. The 50 billion casters overlapped. They really didn't make many martials.

MOAR CLASSES!

They did that in 3.x and we had dozens of classes. It was a complete and total mess for no reason. I like the flexibility we have with 5E and think the subclass system works well. You play a couple of games, figure out what kind of subclass is going to work best for you and the group.

But bah humbug. What do I know thinking that the best selling TTRPG ever made had any good ideas at all and actually works for millions of people.

In any case, back to ignoring the never ending complaints that just shifts targets as to why fighters suck.

 

[DarkCrisis]

When my 5E group tried 2E, the player who loved playing Fighters LOVED it. He could kill things in 1 or 2 hits.

“I feel like what I do matters.”

Yeah it’s more lethal but it’s on both sides.

 

[nevin]

I'm fine with that.

Unfortunately like I said before, most people are and have been designing casters.

I'd argue the problem there is most fixes to martials make them more casterlike or anime like and then people don't play them. just a theory