Scribe
Legend
We need a term for "I actually enjoy this and dont want it to change, find your own thing." that hasnt been slandered with the Gatekeeper definition.
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Unpopular Geek Media Opinions
- Thread starter Reynard
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We need a term for "I actually enjoy this and dont want it to change, find your own thing." that hasnt been slandered with the Gatekeeper definition.
Fifinjir
Explorer
ASoIaF was riding high on the “plot doesn’t matter, characterization Uber alls” philosophy that was big in the 2000s (which I partially blame for GRRM never writing the ending). A lot of people still like it of course, but now that plot is getting more appreciated again, opinions seemed to have cooled from it being the best thing ever.
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As for some of my own:
- fictional people and institutions cannot be judged by consequentialism because the writer can make the consequences what lever they want.
- Good storytelling is not all about execution. Some bad stories just needed another editing pass, but others needed to go right back to the drawing board.
- A work having something to say about a subject you don’t care about is not the same as it having nothing to say.
- “You only say it’s too political because you disagree with the politics” might be true, but I’m not too impressed with the argument when the people making it never praise a work for politics they don’t agree with.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I was describing something a little different. But yes, I think those people could just be called "traditionalists," which is a largely value-free label. (Nothing is entirely value-free nowadays, though, it seems.)
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
I mean, that goes for non-fiction, too, consequentialism is bananas for a number of reasons.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Because the politics one agrees with in art are largely invisible to the people who agree with them, which is why all the discussions over politics in art always has one side baffled that there are politics in whatever people are talking about. (And it's very, very hard to truly not have politics in works of fiction, etc., at all.)
Expecting people to recognize and say "well, I really appreciate this worldview which matches exactly with how I view the world is and think it ought to always be" is like expecting a fish to notice and praise water.
MGibster
Legend
A friend of mine was convinced The Matrix was one of the most dangerous movies fearing it would popularize the idea that "reality isn't real" baloney popular in some philosophical circles. Good movie. Just dangerous.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
College freshmen discovering marijuana for the first time popularize this idea every autumn.
MarkB
Legend
I mean, he wasn't entirely wrong. There's been a serious uptick in that concept in fiction, speculation and personal beliefs that can be pretty much traced back to that movie. Not "take the world by storm" serious, but significant.
Autumnal
Bruce Baugh, Writer of Fortune
The reviewers and critics I most often hear say this and the communities where it most often comes up tend to be marked and marginalized people: queer, disabled, not white, etc. not surprising - they’re more likely to be conscious of having politics (if necessarily having politics). They’re also most likely to say things like “I agree with the values on display here but this story makes an utter hash of consequences or implications in ways A and B.”
Which is one reason I spent reading time with such folks.
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