D&D (2024) Wow, 5.5e characters are STRONG!

[Maxperson]

IMO. Depends on the levels in question.

I think it's all a matter of perception or misperception. I've played the game at all levels and I've never seen martials way behind casters. A little bit sometimes, but not all the time.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think it's all a matter of perception or misperception. I've played the game at all levels and I've never seen martials way behind casters. A little bit sometimes, but not all the time.

Maybe you need glasses. I jest..

In all fairness, I think in practice caster players often held back, and that was easier to do at higher levels as they had soo many options and resources. Their goal usually wasn't use all their biggest guns as fast as possible so they ended the day with the most damage (or otherwise most of anything), it was to find the lowest level spell they could cast that would be highly efficient and use those.

What makes casters so much more powerful (at high levels) isn't what they typically do at high levels, it's what they can do. Because it's not unusual for them to finish a day with more than half their slots unused - including their largest.

*Probably should move this discussion to one of the many caster vs martial threads already in existence.

 

[Horwath]

Maybe you need glasses. I jest..

In all fairness, I think in practice caster players often held back, and that was easier to do at higher levels as they had soo many options and resources. Their goal usually wasn't use all their biggest guns as fast as possible so they ended the day with the most damage (or otherwise most of anything), it was to find the lowest level spell they could cast that would be highly efficient and use those.

What makes casters so much more powerful (at high levels) isn't what they typically do at high levels, it's what they can do. Because it's not unusual for them to finish a day with more than half their slots unused - including their largest.

*Probably should move this discussion to one of the many caster vs martial threads already in existence.

This,

while playing sorcerer with twin spell, you have to hold yourself back and not using twin banishment/dominate/hold all the time, rather just play nice with your summon aberration and fireballs.

 

[Stalker0]

We live in hope that WotC sort out the chronic under-powered (supposedly high CR) monsters that have blighted every book they have released for the past decade. Fizban's Treasury of Dragons & Glory of the Giants don't fill me with confidence they have a handle on high-level play. Hopefully they get it right with the 5.5E Monster Manual.

To me it’s really the mid CR monsters I’m most concerned about. I get that there just comes a point where PCs get so crazy that crs are a crapshoot and you just have to take your best shot. Challenging 15+ level characters is an art form.

I would just like to see CR 8-10 monsters actually throw real weight around

 

[Upper_Krust]

To me it’s really the mid CR monsters I’m most concerned about.

I assume that is what you mostly play, but their math gets more 'off'' as the CRs increase.

I get that there just comes a point where PCs get so crazy that crs are a crapshoot and you just have to take your best shot. Challenging 15+ level characters is an art form.

I disagree, I think it is possible to balance. But the caveat being the CRs must be accurate to start with.

I would just like to see CR 8-10 monsters actually throw real weight around

Mike Shea's 20 HP and 7.5 DPR per CR is a good baseline up to CR 20 (then double the amount between 21-30).

After that you can adjust for monster role and I'd also suggest giving monster's extra reactions based on their 'rank' by comparison to PCs (for every +4 CR the monster has over PC's CR, give the monster an extra reaction.

With PC CR being approx. 2/3rds their level.

 

[Shardstone]

Well, no.

The one real boost is the Feat at first Level...but every book publisjed aince Mythinc Odysseys of Theros in 2020 haa had thoae as standard, over three years now.

Weapon Masteries are functionally juat "Martial Cantrips," which are nice but not a huge boost.

Classes and Species are on the same balance measure as before.

You need to look at the math breakdowns man. I'll go find the link I've been using. Martial classes in OD&D pretty much do double the damage of 2014 classes (which is a good thing), especially at higher levels.

 

[Parmandur]

You need to look at the math breakdowns man. I'll go find the link I've been using. Martial classes in OD&D pretty much do double the damage of 2014 classes (which is a good thing), especially at higher levels.

I have seen a lot of dubious whiterooming, but I've also seen it eviscerated.

 

[Stalker0]

I do think weapon masteries have added in a lot of martial control options. That said, the greatest martial control option (Shove + Grapple) has been heavily nerfed. People will contest that, but using a saving throw instead of an opposed athletics or acrobatics simply means more things will be harder to grapple (often much more often)...its just the way it is.

 

[Blue]

if a literal cantrip isn't your idea of a minor effect, i actually don't know what i could possibly tell you.

Getting a cantrip on top of a melee attack, such at the Warmagic feature of the Eldritch Knight, you consider trivial?

I'm sorry, that is generally considered one of their best, and defining, features.

 

[DarkCrisis]

And people say older Ed’s are complicated.

Always makes me laugh