D&D (2024) 2024 needs to end 2014's passive aggressive efforts to remove magic items & other elements from d&d

[CapnZapp]

Concentration. Most of your best spells require it, including fun high level spells. If you're forced to not use spells in order to make sure that the Fighter has a magic weapon for 1 hour at a time, it's a little more than "I don't feel like it". It's more like "I may need to be doing other things".

Yes - you know your group best. If your fighter player is perfectly content sitting on his hands during the fight where you dazzle everybody with you fantastical magic, you should definitely do that.

Myself... I don't know. If I knew the campaign would have no items, and I still created a wizard character... I would probably realize ahead of time that I would contribute to the net sum of fun for the group if I reserved my concentration spot for the fighter... just once in a while.

But you do you.

 

[nevin]

expecting a character to simply concentrate for an hour to boost another is the exact opposite of what reducing magic was supposed to do. It just simply reverses the percieved issue it was done to fix.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

We are supposed to get prices for magic items in the new DMG which will be nice.

 

[tetrasodium]

Re the character sheet.

For me, it is more useful to have a list of ACTIONS. I can divide this up into: always-on traits, at-will actions, per short rest, per proficiency, and per long rest. Similarly, of moves and reactions.

Most of these actions are from species, background, class and feat. If a magic item happens to grant such an action, I can add that to the Action list.

Also, I place the name of the magic item at a Body Slot, or add it to general equipment being carried around.

I can see how that would be a useful section(s) if it was well supported. IME players will often start out filling in that kinda stuff in the features & traits section (new players especially) but the size of that little box quickly winds up being too cramped to usefully record much at a readable font size beyond maybe names & page numbers for a lot of PCs as they start moving into tier2levels & beyond. Something like that might almost need a full page (or close) for it to record name: charges per [time unit or whatever] & some details about the ability.
capable subclass

 

[CapnZapp]

But everything you just said has nothing to do with the issue I'm speaking to. It's a completely different topic. I agree with you about purchasing and crafting magic items and have said so. That has zero to do with the claim that it's a common problem that new players go into games with zero spellcasters and zero magic items against creatures which routinely take advantage of that lack of magic unexpectedly. That scenario just isn't a common problem. And no amount of dancing around and trying to change the topic to something else will make that a common problem, which was the claim made that I responded to.

Maybe I need to clarify?

I don't buy Minigiant's claim the lack of magic weapons create insurmountable problems.

There do be a problem, which we both appear to agree exists, and that is that WotC made two assumptions or design criteria:

* the game doesn't need magic items
therefore
* it doesn't need magic item pricing (that isn't pulled out of our collective asses)

Drawing the second conclusion was completely unfounded just because the first is correct.

The game needs rational magic item pricing, not because this magically makes the game depend on them (it does not), but
1) to provide a gold outlet for groups that care nothing for downtime and out-of-adventure expenditures
2) because it's fun to shop for magic items once in a while; that is, have the power to decide for yourself what to have, as opposed to merely be able to either loot or leave a specific item

 

[CapnZapp]

expecting a character to simply concentrate for an hour to boost another is the exact opposite of what reducing magic was supposed to do. It just simply reverses the percieved issue it was done to fix.

You're conflating two claims here.

"5E doesn't work without magic weapons" and (paraphrasing here) "reducing magic reduces the dependency on magic".

Please don't argue as if I championed the latter when I am arguing against the former.

 

[mamba]

I think that you are grasping too far. The DMG even disagrees with you where it says this on PG141 to ensure stacking will occur despite your claims otherwise.

I did what the DMG said

“Use common sense to determine whether more than one of a given kind of magic item can be worn”

You can disagree with my conclusion if you want to, but for me one of each, two rings is the common sense result.

I think that even contradicts your "I doubt anyone is wearing a cape and cloak at the same time either" claim

not to me, that is you making an exception because you want to, I do not want to make one … this is basically the slots you asked for with permission to overrule them.

Even in 3.x when slots existed it was common for players point at movies tv shows & things like pictures from renfest with a person wearing hat helmet headband & crown or multiple crown/tiara hoping for an exception to have their hopes shut down by having the gm point out that cape and cloak use the same slot.

First, then why are you asking for slots when they change nothing… Second, they will not get that exception from me

What you are forgetting while asserting how complicated problems you are nonissues while needing to break them down into isolated unrelated trivialities is that we are discussing an edition that still has not seen fit to include a section on the character sheet for magic items after nine years

so what, I do not need one and you can use a different sheet that does if you consider it one

I do not see the problems you are bringing up.

 

[mamba]

I liked the focus on magic items in earlier editions. But it makes sense to no longer emphasize it in 5E now that the PCs gain magic-like abilities as they level up.

The issue with the old way, imo, is that it was challenging to evenly distribute magic items in a even or fair way.

and the issue with the new way is that there is not even an attempt at fair power distribution. I am not seeing progress here

 

[mamba]

nvm

 

[Mistwell]

Maybe I need to clarify?

I don't buy Minigiant's claim the lack of magic weapons create insurmountable problems.

There do be a problem, which we both appear to agree exists, and that is that WotC made two assumptions or design criteria:

* the game doesn't need magic items
therefore
* it doesn't need magic item pricing (that isn't pulled out of our collective asses)

Drawing the second conclusion was completely unfounded just because the first is correct.

The game needs rational magic item pricing, not because this magically makes the game depend on them (it does not), but
1) to provide a gold outlet for groups that care nothing for downtime and out-of-adventure expenditures
2) because it's fun to shop for magic items once in a while; that is, have the power to decide for yourself what to have, as opposed to merely be able to either loot or leave a specific item

Agreed. Thanks for clarifying.