D&D (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[mellored]

and Brutal Strike gives them a pseudo-Power Attack and happens more often than Brutal Critical did.

I did the math earlier, Brutal Strike is a tiny bit less damage than having advantage. So barbarians without the critical boost do less.

Unless you punt someone 20' though spiked growth or something.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Unless you punt someone 20' though spiked growth or something.

"So, this quarter, you were going to work on punting our enemies through spiked growths more often, but the metrics look like you've been doing it about the same. I'm going to mark that as 'needs improvement' on your review, but let's talk about ways to set up more punting opportunities in the next three months."

 

[Charlaquin]

And the way Light property is worded, you don't even have to be dual-wielding, but can hold a shield up (with your Fighter multiclass) while you stab someone with your Vex weapon, then switch weapons and get your free Nick attack with the same hand (with Dueling dmg boost to both of them).

Hmm. This actually runs into un/equip issues in the second round, so maybe you do want two Nick weapons and just switch between them.

Nope, donning a shield is an action.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Nope, donning a shield is an action.

You are never switching the shield... why would you, you only need one hand for all your Light Nick weapons.

 

[mellored]

Nope, donning a shield is an action.

I really doubt it's RAI.

But with the current wording you can attack with a rapier+shield, swap to a dagger+shield, and nick.

 

[Mistwell]

I think most rogues will want nick personally, there are just so many uses for a rogue's bonus action, not having to use it for TWF is just great for any melee style.

Rogues just need one hit per round to use Sneak Attack so they really don't need Vex in there. This build had around a 97% chance of getting one hit

Ok, this isn't up-to-date but it's good to have some numbers to work with. However, I would describe this as a different situation than the one you described here and here.

Yes, the DPS-specced Rogue is above the baseline, but the DPS-specced Rogue is not "near the top of damage," they are almost dead last among martials, slightly above the Devotion Paladin, which isn't the most DPS-specced Paladin subclass. The DPS-specced Barbarian from Playtest 7 is 26% above the Assassin Rogue; the Playtest 8 version would be more so, since they can Rage more often and Brutal Strike gives them a pseudo-Power Attack and happens more often than Brutal Critical did. I'd also note that the Battlemaster Fighter would be a lot higher than the Champion.

The only thing not up to date is Monk, which isn't on there. It's through the latest playtest for each of the listed classes I believe.

Yes it's slightly different because it's now up to date. It's almost dead on in the middle of the pack for melee damage. And that's without poisoning. I always said Barbarian was the best at this (though possibly Monk now) if the Blade Pact gets fixed like we think it will be. And that makes sense - Barbarian SHOULD be the best non-caster DPR in the game. But rogue does great.

I don't know that Blademaster would be higher than the new Champion. The new Champion is pretty good at DPR now.

 

[Vikingkingq]

Rogues just need one hit per round to use Sneak Attack so they really don't need Vex in there. This build had around a 97% chance of getting one hit

The only thing not up to date is Monk, which isn't on there. It's through the latest playtest for each of the listed classes I believe.

Yes it's slightly different because it's now up to date. It's almost dead on in the middle of the pack for melee damage. And that's without poisoning. I always said Barbarian was the best at this (though possibly Monk now) if the Blade Pact gets fixed like we think it will be. And that makes sense - Barbarian SHOULD be the best non-caster DPR in the game. But rogue does great.

I don't know that Blademaster would be higher than the new Champion. The new Champion is pretty good at DPR now.

Barbarian is Playtest 8.

 

[Vikingkingq]

It's almost dead on in the middle of the pack for melee damage.

How can it be in the middle of the pack if it's one from the bottom?

 

[Mistwell]

How can it be in the middle of the pack if it's one from the bottom?

It's 3.5 off the mid point, again not counting poisoned. That's pretty darn near middle. Certainly not something to be making a huge complaint thread about.

 

[Vikingkingq]

It's 3.5 off the mid point, again not counting poisoned. That's pretty darn near middle. Certainly not something to be making a huge complaint thread about.

Are you including the warlock when you’re arriving at the midpoint? Because I’m not sure that’s relevant to a question of how the Rogue compares to other martials.