D&D (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[Pauln6]

Having just finished running a long LU campaign, my players actually straight up said they hated the expertise die. They liked the simple and consistent bonus that you don’t have to think about. We will be going to regular expertise in my next game

My players use a guidance cantrip for +1d4 on most checks so upgrading to +1d6 won't complicate matters but I don't really like the idea formally sub-dividing all the skills to look more like 3e as that looks like it could get messy. I'm going to try it next adventure though. I also like doing 1 point of damage on a push or knockdown etc since it feels less like a wasted attack to a strength based character.

Of course, using tactics to grant your Rogue allies opportunity or off turn attacks is a great way to boost dpr. And cunning strike looks like a great way to engineer either falling damage or advantage on your allies' attacks, which increase group dpr.

 

[Charlaquin]

Which different class or multiclass would that be?

I don’t know, what play patterns are you looking for?

 

[Horwath]

If every subclass starts at the same level and gets their chief abilities at the same level, that makes it easier to allow cross-class subclassing, which is a good thing

If they then split each subclass into two parts so you could switch subclass halfway on your path to level 20 that'd be wicked sweet awesome.

Or, here is an idea.

drop subclasses,
make those abilities into feats/half-feats and add extra feat slot at levels 3,6,10,14.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'm not looking for a solution where ALL rogues do more damage, because I'm not bitching "rogues don't do enough damage".

I'm bitching "SOME rogues don't do enough damage". The ones that are willing to focus on damage.

So give us a damage focus. Don't give us a free bonus. That's not a choice to "focus".

As a thought experiment:

How would a rogue class look like if it got a sneak die every level?

If we begin by assuming this rogue would be willing to give up everything else, would that be viable?

Remember, in the end it's "only" damage. Dealing damage isn't what derails campaigns.

I would suspect that a 20d6 Rogue wouldn't be much out of place at 20th level. If we additionally say sneak damage is once a round and not once a turn, the class shouldn't have to give up much at all.

What about a feat: rogue initiate. +1 dex. +1d6 sneak attack damage.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Or, here is an idea.

drop subclasses,
make those abilities into feats/half-feats and add extra feat slot at levels 3,6,10,14.

Urgh. No.
Worst idea ever. Play pathfinderw instead. Don't make all games the same.

 

[mellored]

They now have ways to poison, trip, and disarm foes with cunning strike....or can choose prone, push, or impose disadvantage on enemy attacks using weapon masteries should they wish to.

Rogue weapon masteries are either Vex, Nick, or Slow.
Cunning strike can prone and give disadvantage via poisoned or blind (and more).

Also remember that Athletics is no longer used for grapple. It's now 8+ prof+ Str (Dex for monks).

So rogues won't be pushing.

The only way to push with sneak attack is a heavy crossbow, which would require a feat or multiclassing.

 

[Horwath]

Urgh. No.
Worst idea ever. Play pathfinderw instead. Don't make all games the same.

ok.
keep subclasses as beginners tool.
But make all 3rd level features available to all classes that could somewhat use those features, same with 6th, 10th and 14th level features.
some would be class exclusive as it would be base on some class ability, but some like Scout getting proficiency+expertise in Nature&Survival(or any other 2 skills of choice) can be available to all at 3rd level.

 

[Mistwell]

ok.
keep subclasses as beginners tool.
But make all 3rd level features available to all classes that could somewhat use those features, same with 6th, 10th and 14th level features.
some would be class exclusive as it would be base on some class ability, but some like Scout getting proficiency+expertise in Nature&Survival(or any other 2 skills of choice) can be available to all at 3rd level.

Not even sure of the purpose of your advocacy. Not a popular idea, and not something that WOTC will be doing, so why pursue this line of advocacy?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

ok.
keep subclasses as beginners tool.
But make all 3rd level features available to all classes that could somewhat use those features, same with 6th, 10th and 14th level features.
some would be class exclusive as it would be base on some class ability, but some like Scout getting proficiency+expertise in Nature&Survival(or any other 2 skills of choice) can be available to all at 3rd level.

I would have liked universal subclasses at 3, 6, 10, 14.
I was sad to see that go.

 

[Pauln6]

Rogue weapon masteries are either Vex, Nick, or Slow.
Cunning strike can prone and give disadvantage via poisoned or blind (and more).

Also remember that Athletics is no longer used for grapple. It's now 8+ prof+ Str (Dex for monks).

So rogues won't be pushing.

The only way to push with sneak attack is a heavy crossbow, which would require a feat or multiclassing.

I suppose there are also a couple of feats that provide battlemaster manoeuvres.